First I'll give you guys a fun little update with me. @junglegirl and I are back doing what we enjoy most and that is hitting the road on my shiny red motor bike. So my time has been a bit more limited as we left the city of Chiang Mai in the north of Thailand and are heading east several thousand kilometers to the island of Koh Chang. We'll be meandering our way through the beautiful back roads for the next month or so, and then staying on another amazing Thai Island for much of the winter months. Really a fun time for us to see more of this beautiful country.
Now lets get down to business....
The Situation
Since being a witness (just a month now), I've gotten access to all sorts of information and work that is going on behind the scenes. Frankly it's far more than I could have imagined. I also have access to the latest concerns and issues as they spring up. Well this issue was brought to my attention in the discord witness chat and it seems like a pretty big deal.
So basically as it was explained to me, there was a "fail-safe", like a firewall built into the original steemit block chain that was carried over here to Blurt when when the blockchain was copied (forked). This preventative measure is part of the proposal system and has the power to stop the funding to all projects and proposals. Depending on how you look at it, it basically kills payroll. Like trying to run a business but you can't pay your employees. Pretty serious stuff.
To my understanding, the proposal system, the "fail-safe", and this DAO fund (Decentralised Autonomous Organisation) were all already built into the blockchain. The DAO fund runs on auto pilot and accumulates via the blockchains ever depreciating inflation rate. The tokens are created (inflation) and then dished out to the approved projects, 100% automatically from this DAO fund.
Why Now?
Like the witness list, the proposal system vote weight was changed too on July 7th to make it more decentralized, relinquishing much power from the founders of Blurt to the community. Honestly, that's quite impressive in my opinion, especially when you factor in all the "authoritarian" finger pointing that has gone on in the founders direction.
If you are unfamiliar with "proposals" in general here on Blurt; go have a look. Just under where you click to vote for witness is the vote for proposal button. Proposals are a bit more complex than picking a face you like on the witness list ;) as you actually have to read and understand each proposal to know what you are voting for. However it's extremely important; in fact this is how important it is....
What's at stake?
The main Blurt sign up page will lose funding and will most likely go down. https://joinblurt.com/ Sounds like a big deal to me. My girlfriend @junglegirl and I used this site to make her account with no problem six months ago.
The ecosynthesizer account will stop curation, may sell their holdings dumping the price further, and their site http://ecosynthesizer.com/blurt will also go down which is a great source of information, especially for potential investors.
More details of what is at stake can be seen here in @megadrive's comment on a recent post by @khrom .... https://blurt.blog/blurt/@megadrive/ripg8x
Why are these two important parts of infrastructure about a week away from being taken down?
In the most simple terms, they have not been voted up high enough in the proposal list. They are currently ranked number two and number three. Isn't that high enough to get funded you may ask?
What is the top voted proposal?
The top proposal in the list, is the firewall/fail safe, called the "return proposal". If this is voted to number one, it blocks and "refunds" all the blurt back to the DAO fund for any proposals that are listed below it. So if this "return proposal" (as it's titled) was ranked number 3, then proposals number 4 and below would have their funding blocked.....to my understanding. (all this is still pretty new to me, so correct me if I'm wrong...)
So this refund/firewall/fail-safe "return proposal" is in the top spot. There for it basically kills all proposals and makes it so not only these critical infrastructure proposals don't get funded....no proposals at all get funded. In other words, payroll for maintaining these things has been cut off since around early July and now people are saying F this. Why should I operate at a loss here?
Why is this "return proposal" in the top spot blocking all other proposals from getting funded?
I don't know. We would have to ask @ctime, @mariuszkarowski, and @mmmmkkkk311. These three very large accounts which have generously invested in Blurt and do a great job curating the platform have all voted for this blocking of proposal funding. I don't know their specific motivation for this, maybe they would like to explain how this is good for Blurt, the Price of Blurt, the average user, and the smaller investor like myself.
I just don't see how letting important infrastructure go unfunded and taken down is a good thing....or blocking any and all proposals too for that matter. The proposal system has been shut down. That being said, I'm by no means speaking in an attacking tone, in fact I'm a big fan of these accounts as they have been instrumental in lifting the price, the platform, and supporting authors through curation including myself.
As promised when starting my witness, I'm here to help grow blurt from a pro business perspective. Not a pro megadrive perspective, not a pro ctime perspective. I'm pro Blurt and pro business, and from that angle, I'm just left scratching my head. So unless this can be explained in a logical way that makes business sense to me I'm all for releasing the proposal system to function normally again and fund this Blurt sign up page and more.
How much Blurt are they asking for?
To keep this infrastructure going they are asking for about 143,000 Blurt a month at today's price about $500 a month total for both proposals (current 2nd and 3rd on the list). It's paid in Blurt Power and surely NOT all will be dumped on the market. To my understanding this is not much money for what they do, and at the moment they are operating at a loss as explained to me. Of course this makes sense if they are cut off from funding.
What actions can be taken to fund the given infrastructure?
And the Survey...
There are several ways to get this infrastructure funded from the community DAO fund as originally intended......Please vote for what you think is best, given what we know. Keep in mind there is no down-vote on Blurt and both sides are eager to hear from the community. Your voice is what makes Blurt the best decentralized social media blockchain on the market. So speak up and Blurt it out! Let us know what you think! Nobody is going to hate you for it, as long as you don't call anyone a rotten C word ;)
1: Request that @ctime, @mariuszkarowski, and @mmmmkkkk311 remove their votes from the "return proposal" that is blocking funding from all other proposals including the specific infrastructure proposals in 2nd and 3rd place.
2: It's their votes and they should do what they want, but we the community can collectively vote too, and we should all just vote how we want. If you want to help see that the infrastructure maintenance get funded, you can vote on the 2nd and 3rd proposals titled "Upkeep Proposal" and "BlurtKey, Tools, and Custom APIs Development and Maintenance Proposal" and do not vote for the "return proposal". However the community is unlikely to have enough Blurt Power to get either of these funded and in first place above the blocking "return proposal".
3: Allow the founders and @megadrive to vote with the @initblurt account with about 4 million blurt, to help push the infrastructure proposals up. Note: In an attempt to bring further decentralization and appease certain critics @megadrive has promised not to vote with this account and he has kept his word. The purpose and history of this @initblurt account I do believe has been the topic of controversy, but I really don't know the details and issue behind that...yet.
4: Blocking funding to ecosynthesizer and ending the joinblurt page is the right thing to do.
5: Some sort of compromise should be worked out. Recently I read something from @ctime about changing the hearts on Blurt.blog back to arrows. Maybe this can be done and the funding can be released....something...compromise, both give up something for the betterment of the rest of us and the platform.
Note: It's taken me some time to study this issue and make this post to the best of my understanding. Seriously, there are a lot of moving parts; but I think I have the situation correct. That being said I have not gotten a chance to communicate with @ctime and get a better understanding of why it's important to block funding to said infrastructure proposals. So maybe we will learn something totally new that will change many opinions. If any of these parties ctime/marious would like to speak privately with me, I'll all ears and can be reached on discord at "World Travel Pro#9731" or email me at [email protected]
Please vote with a number and then leave whatever comments you would like; or feel free to suggest something else entirely. I'll leave my vote in the comments as well.
Before starting these conversations, I recommend that the functioning of the Dao funds be conveyed so that each person within the Blockchain can have a better vision and understanding.
Once the DAO is up and running, all decisions on where and how to spend your funds are made by consensus. Basically in Blurt it works through a voting system and when a proposal has enough acceptance (voting power) then the proposal is executed.
It is rare to see in these funds an explanation of why you vote for it, it is the person who makes the proposal who must sell their project and specify how they will use these funds. And if the community, from a small to a large investor, can decide to approve or not. But in each proposal is the information that must be evaluated for approval.
Currently the Dao fund is blocked by an approved proposal, which can demonstrate how the voting system works. However the approved proposal does not allow to pay any type of development because there are no intermediate points, or all are approved or the funds are returned, this creates an impossibility to even make a proposal to update frontends, create dapps and many other applications that can boost the growth of the platform.
Therefore it is important to seek a consensus between the parties in order to move forward and make money, yes make money. All of us who invest time want to see the growth of the platform but without development we will only be with an inert platform.
Thanks for the expert explanation to add to this post. Much appreciated. You really know your stuff!
I just have two question though....
How did you get to be so well spoken in English?
Eres de Venezuala, no?
I am from Venezuela, my English is very, very bad, but I can safely hold a conversation to order coffee and a pizza.
Your explanation is very good. It describes what is happening in an easy to understand way.
If we lose those services, it would mean that the understaffed and overloaded core development team would have to put current projects on hold in order to build replacements for the lost services. It would set Blurt back almost two years.
sometimes two years back is something what we must to do, to achieve jump 4 years forward.
Basically this is Blurt compared to hive eg we went back 2 years but fixed some key design flaws underlying hive like downvoting and bad voting system. These mistakes would probably require quite drastic and demanding changes in various projects if we were in the same place as hive and so the basics would be built on a healthier foundation ..
as mk wrote
https://blurtlatam.com/blurt/@mariuszkarowski/some-questions-to-fake-whales
selling accounts directly for dollars can be a crime prosecuted by legal authorities. Does symbionts have the proper licenses to sell crypto? Even blocktrades, which is a registered company and has a license to operate a crypto exchange, is unable to get a license to sell Hive for dollars.
I hope symbionts is a registered company and has all the required licenses, because otherwise it exposes the four of you to legal problems and all of us to the loss of what we have earned on this blockchain
Hello.
Nice to greet you. I just want to ask you a question regarding the account creation, you mentioned that currently Hive does not allow to charge the accounts? or at least that I could understand. However I remember a long time ago when I was doing life on this medium, one of its main interfaces was very similar to Blurt's account creation and still is. If they have not faced charges, and maintain these options why should it be any different for Blurt? I also understand that there should be a means to allow account creation that is easy for users. As long as data privacy is respected. Some time ago an interface allowed to create accounts in Blurt and soon after the programmers abandoned the project, and surprise! Many users who created by chance by that means had their funds stolen, including me. So I think that these means should be audited or at least the code should be auditable to be transparent to the community.
Thanks for the correction. My knowledge about Hive is already outdated by one year and the blockrades comment who wrote that they are trying to get the proper licenses is at least 1.5 years old. Good for Hive, they have a legitimate service. I agree that fervi 's application should be open source and approved by community, but that also applies to joinblurt application about which we know nothing
Even if open source, another version could still be deployed and there is the matter of security around collecting user emails or sending keys via an email server and whether a copy remains on the server.
We'll see when he show the code, at least he is not asking for dollars or crypto, just email.
Is joinblurt app open sourced, how do you know it's not a scam that collecting credit card numbers?
Yes it is open source and they use a third party payment processor to process the card info.
I wish I was knowledgeable to comment intelligently on this stuff, but I will say this....nothing wrong with you guys sharing information, and asking each other questions in this public forum.
Since you both take on leadership rolls it's actually quite reassuring to a non tech guy like myself that you both can converse on these topics intelligently; demonstrating to all a deep understanding and knowledge of this stuff. That alone is a confidence builder to me and others.
So please discuss and question each other more, we are all getting an education here, and I'm very confident the only way out of such quagmires is through non-threatening communication.
That would be a big problem🤯. When I join here, I also used https://joinblurt.com/. Sadly, they are going to close the bridge for new users if we lose this joinblurt service.
OMG.....that is disastrous
Not what we need.
why? 2 years ago blurt was ok and price was doing ok. Sometimes its good to go back to go forward on a better track.
Two years ago the price of Blurt went up, there were attacks, then we returned to an accelerated pace of growth and good mood but the attacks of December happened and we were struggling until February 2021 if I remember correctly to establish an infrastructure free of attacks. for those who have not made life here since the beginning do not know the price fluctuations that have existed and that has caused the decline of the same but from time to time it is good to know why our currency is not worth $ 1.
In blurt existed Blurt.world, Blurt.Buzz, referral program, App for android and ios Lets Blurt, blurtter and other apss. From time to time there are conflicts or attacks, plus the fluctuation of Bitcoin in the market. I can tell you that today we do not have an accelerated development, it costs. Now without the Dao fund it is more complicated to finance projects.
My question was more to do with WTP saying it would be 'disastrous' to be set back 2 years and why that would be disastrous.
Sorry I’m late to the conversation . I’ve been trying to read other people’s opinions first before I try to write my own.
Kudos for everyone who got involved and voiced their opinion and thank you @world-travel-pro for taking the initiative to help resolve the issue in a well-manner.
As one of the persons wearing mostly a developer’s hat, I (and what @kamranploy and others have said here as well) can say that building or developing software is not an easy task .
As one of my mentors have taught me:
For those who have been in human resource recruitments know how difficult it is to find the right people.
Anyways, all I just want to say is that devs who are working on Blurt are not employed and are somehow seeking something back to develop something. And the most obvious reason for that is to be compensated on Blurt and of course to see the community grow. However each one of us has an agenda here. Personally I believe Hive is already overcrowded by developers. Blurt needs developers to move forward (and marketing, etc.)
To attract developers, they need some compensation (right now Blurt) with the speculation that Blurt’s price will eventually go up. These funds may come from a centralized entity, but I think the community prefers to have some control or say into where these funds go. Yes, @megadrive can control this, but as what he have shown, he let the community decide. This takes some discipline and restrain on his side and I’m glad he opted to let the community decide.
Although it’s already late for me, i would have voted for 2 (the longer route), but I’m happy things went to 1.
P.S.
I’m writing this on a phone so pardon for any non-cohesive thoughts
Thank you so much for the kind words and taking the time to write this from your phone! ;) Also thank you for the witness vote, much appreciated. Having been a witness for a short while and having access to the private witness chat I must say from a perfectly neutral stance, I don't see any funny business going on at all. In fact I see a lot of dedicated people doing all sorts of tech related stuff that I personally can not do.
And it is true, megadrive has reeled it in quite impressively as of late, as the below statement can not be denied. I'm all for second chances and looking upon people with a fresh set of eyes, that goes for lucylin, ctime anyone really.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts!
First number 5. i would like to see proper open civil discussion from the investors as to why they voted that and what they would like to see changed and what they hope to gain for it or what other ideas they have to keep blurt going as well as the other side being put forward. A mix in the middle would be the best not a my way or the high way which, let’s be honest does kind of dominate on blurt these days. It’s easy to get into, especially online and everyone has different ideas on what freedom means to them yet all value freedom above al else else they would all still be on hive keeping their head down. I guess if a consensus can’t be reached then there has to be another step to ensure blurt runs smoothly.
I don’t believe we should agree to change hearts though. I don’t think an investor should get to dictate any more than the finders. Something like that should be decided by the community rly. I don’t think anyone should be held to ransom on things else it’ll escalate. It has to be a proper discussion of ok what do you want and why? Then the other side answers the same. Ultimately the solution has to be the best for the platform rather than either the foundation or ctime and in the interests of he majority of users not just one cause they are founders and not just another cause they have more money than others.
P.s. am I the only one who likes the hearts? Lol 💓
I like the hearts and the blurt.blog ui is just one of many, Blurt Core reserves the right to operate it in a manner we feel has mass appeal, the frontend is a 2nd layer on the blockchain and not affected by consensus. Ctime’s post was sarcasm though, he was oversimplifying all the efforts Blurt core spent over the years and dumbed it down to just changing the UI from arrows to hearts, conveniently leaving out other majors like exchange listings and fending off several attacks which would have otherwise destroyed Blurt.
I actually don’t even see the hearts as I use exclusively latam cause it’s far less buggy for me and I think the trending page is messed up on .blog I don’t see posts that are trending in latam. I can’t scroll much on it either and it logs me out a lot. I like the hearts tho. If the mobile app was improved I would probably like that it needs some work certainly on the iPad cause I can’t make posts from it, not sure if others can ? But with a few tweaks it could become the go to interface for many especially if new ppl can sign up for free there.
The trending page has filtering and further conditions to prevent posts trending with just single or few big votes, it now takes into consideration wider community engagement, will post about it officially soon.
@tekraze @saboin can you look into the scrolling and logout issues above.
@sagarkothari88 can you look into the mobile app inability to post on iPad.
I’ve been talking to sagar I’m busy this weekend but I’ll video with him and show him how it looks on the iPad
That’s awesome thanks for the bug hunting help.
You rock! That is great to hear!
Friggen commander and chief! Look at you go! I like it! 👍
Also official statement about the trending page coming out soon....getting things done! Very nice.
Blog is pretty buggy from the iPhone for me latam is a lot smoother I guess we all use different devices
I kept wondering why I didn't get the notification for this & found that there is a spell mistake in my name. I am investigating that issue now.
Yes lol made a typo on your name, will fix
LOL,.. and we all know what that means to you ,.. the critics ?
You just tag em and bag em ,.. to keep them down .
;-)
It means that the piece of shit penguin that trashes everyone with an opposing opinion and the platform itself won't be on trending on just one of several front ends. I'm all for it.
AND it means that post like this with massive community support and engagement will be on trending. Not good right?
By the way....I'm leaning heavily in favor that you suck. So I guess the feeling is mutual. lol
What ever ,...
Ha', i see ,.. but your so wrong ,.. i didn't have any feelings mutual to your's ,. let's start there .
Then second i do not lean anywhere ,.. i am standing firm on my feet . I make no claim's that you suck or otherwise ,. No , for doing that i also would need to explain and back up these insinuations .
( don't get me wrong ,.. i could , with ease ,. just don't want to, be glad i ain't at a war path ) ;-)
So now ,.. the problem ,.. you making baseless assumptions without reason or backup .
Should i feel triggered by it ? should i react ? should i accept the war you offer me ?
Nope ,.. ill just let you dig yourself in a little deeper by saying ,....
No , perfect .. if not i could not have given my critical comment on it .
Ho' and why would i suck , or what ? ,.. please explain ,
as when you call it you got to name it to .
Otherwise the claim is empty and just sputter on the bandwaves .
;-)
You know what at some point ppl need to stop dragging blurt and bringing up the past if we want to stay on and build something of value for everyone. Trust me I’ll fight for freedoms every day of the week, I blame my very heavy Aquarius chart, that I just can’t let an injustice go unfaught for. But I just don’t think it’s doing any good to keep dividing the us vs them and just constantly being negative about the platform. Maybe if we all spoke more about what we wanted than didn’t want some good ideas might actually come up, maybe people will listen etc. Maybe dan can do some surveys and if the results are overwhelming they will make the changes. This is more like a protest in a way. You can’t just protest things you hate lol else what can be changed? If you say I don’t like hearts but don’t give suggestions then what do we do have 0 symbol for example. Like what shape does everyone want as a button? Lol personally I couldn’t care less but maybe instead of going on about how much ppl hate a heart they could suggest some shapes they do like and if enough ppl agree with them ppl might change it. The heart thing is an example but with everything it’s kind of pointless to just be we don’t want this this and this, it’s better to be like we would love to see this this and this and then I do think if enough ppl agree it would get pushed through. Dan would be an idiot to be a top ten witness and just fight and argue with mega drive every day, it’s totally unprofessional and achieves nothing . That role comes with a different responaibility than blogger. I would do the same as him. You cant work for a business and fight with your boss and the employers and customers all day on twitter lol it’s just not what you do in an official role. Yes you keep the same beliefs but you go about it in an entirely different way by merging ideas. My two cents
You are right....you don't suck. My bad, hope you accept my apologies. Looks like I was the one that got triggered. It's that fucking penguin, he's gotten to me! lol and I know your a big fan like I used to be. Seriously. I hope you can accept my apology, that was very uncool of me, especially after reading your reply. Thanks again for explaining and letting me apologize. Let me go check out your blog and see what you've been up to....
So strange, complete opposite for me. I still can't post from Latam but I can clearly comment, .blog is smooth as can be for me, so I like that for sure. I'm not a hearts kind of guy, maybe I'd prefer something like this....💪lol or maybe just more 🥓..hahaha. But honestly I could really give a shit, hearts, arrows, whatever. Seems like an insignificant thing to me compared to refferal programs and stuff like that.
As stated in a recent posts...I like the variety and both trending pages have their benefits.
I think it might depend what you use I use an iPad, iPhone and iMac interchangeably so I can see how different things work on different things. Blurt blog rly doesn’t work well on my iPhone but ok on my laptop and iPad. The mobile app doesn’t rly work very well on my iPad etc
Maybe we should hVe stars haha and totally break the trend or diamonds ... diamond hands 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I think we all knew c times was a joke well I am not sure everyone did lol
hahaha....Are you speaking into your phone again? I'm sure you mean "c time was joking".
It was we all know ctime’s was a joke I think. Maybe You could get the wrong end of the stick and mute me haha tbh half the time I type there are so many spelling errors I’m surprised ppl understand it let alone take offence 🤣
Lol sorry I keep hoping the voice to type thing will improve and learn my voice better 🤣
BlurtLatam already has the arrow ? Why do they need to be the same ???
Why not let Ctime, mmmkkk, Lucy, Frot etc run BlurtLatam and the Blurt Team run Blurt.blog …
People who don’t like either one can go to Steemit, Bastyon, Serey, Hive, Pob, VYB, TipMeACoffee etc etc etc …
We have so much choice … too much choice. I’m exhausted from posting everywhere and making so much friggin money. What am I goi g to do with all my money ???
It’s crazy how much money.
There are already 2 very different Blurt Front ends … why do we need them to be the same ?
Let them be different ? Viva La difference
Ehh correction, Blurtlatam is not implemented by ctime, Ctime, mmmkkk, Lucy, Frot,. It has been around for about two years. The magic of decentralization allows to have variety in many aspects. However I understand that at the moment it is not about implementing front end interfaces. It is about how the Dao fund is managed and the proposals that are allocated to it. If the Dao fund remains closed there is no way for developers including myself to make any kind of proposal to scale or create dapps. If we only think it's about the frontend then we don't understand the reality of the conflict or the difference of opinions.
Ok. Thanks. It’s too complicated for me….. I’ll stay out of it.
No, your opinion is important. It is always good that there are innovative ideas that can allow a consensus among many parties. Only at this point the only discrepancy is that Blurtlatam is maintained by a different team. Regards
It’s too bad that somebody somewhere cannot create a new Front end for @ctime mmmkkk, Frot, Lucy. Etc etc… one that they could make whatever changes they want … it would be great to see what they develop. … maybe xblurt…. Or cblurt …. Or dblurt.com or something new ….
Why not ???
Could @fervi not create a new front end ? @tekraze ? For a fee ??? Maybe ??
There are so many awesome Front Ends on Hive … pob, VYB, Ecency, Liketu, Leo ..l amd they all get along … mostly….
And with a #hashtag you earn all the extra free tokens. It’s incredible …
#pob #vyb #cent #hive-engine
So much free crypto it’s incredible.
That is the essence of decentralization, all Blurt source code is available in its repositories. Studying it, understanding it, updating every fragment of that code can lead to creating new interfaces or even having your own tuned one. It takes time, some money, and above all knowledge.
Yes … it’s too bad a few developers cannot work with @ctime @fervi etc to create a new 100% decentralized Blurt Front end that they could be happy with .
I am pretty sure this was the original Intent of Jacob anyways….
More Front ends the better … we need to have some diversity.
We all need to put our very strong differences aside and work together to improve Blurt.
No matter what it is not worth it to always be fighting against each other.
It benefits not one.
We have to forgive and forget and move forward.
Don't forget the VIP frontend 😉 or it was another joke of them
Yes. There is that Front End also. So many Options out there.
I think we may have a natural born problem solver folks! ;)
@ctime does any of this interest you?
This one is available …. Cost is 1 penny …
Hey there Off Grid! Thanks for stopping by and sharing this with us. I find it very hard not to agree. I really like the fundamentals of Blurt blockchain...period. Honestly I think many of us do. I seldom here anyone complaining about changing anything to the core blockchain fundamentals ie...no downvote and so on.
That being said your points having one of the existing front ends or a new front end fully in charge by @ctime and like-minded friends, just makes a lot of sense to me. All the front end does is display the blockchain info in a manner that the person in charge of the front end desires. Obviously there are other issues, but seems to me like this would solve many.
Well .... I have been suggesting this for years now. Nobody seems interested.
UV MAG! At it again! Couldn't agree more. Common sense, well thought out, well written.....when do you start your witness? You will certainly have my vote! We need more like you! Thanks for the contribution to this post, I find your thoughts and ideas to be of great value!
I would prefer if those big 3 account owners can unvote the return proposal and let the other proposals receive funds for their works. How can we see new devs when we are struggling to fund already added proposals? I don't think any new devs or users try to add proposals to the system when they know they can't be funded. That means no development anymore.
From time to time we are having these kinds of discussions and more than we think, this will not good for the platform. Why I am saying that is when new users see these discussions they are not going to do something for blurt. So I suggest let's come to one great solution and let's make this platform more valuable.
And also, I would like to ask the community users, please try to read the proposals in the proposal system and make sure to add your vote if you like to those proposals( You cost nothing). if all users gathered, we can do more than what we thought. So please add your votes for valuable proposals. And also if you have voted for the return proposal without knowing, make sure to unvote it.
Finally, about the @initblurt, it's not 4 Mil, Blurt team can cast like 19-20 Mil vote from initblurt account but I like if we can solve this problem without that account.
Thanks @randula for taking the time to add such words of wisdom to this post. As a valued and respected person here on Blurt your words carry weight, heck you even quit being a steem witness and chose this platform when you did not have to. Always have much respect for that, a real team player on the Blurt blockchain!
Yes, I agree, maybe not the best optics to have these type of posts on trending as it does put our problems right out in the forefront, maybe a turn off to potential investors......or maybe a turn on? I have heard the opinion that some are very impressed with the level of community open conversation highlighting power to the people and decentralization. Meanwhile no down-vote to manipulate others as free speech and free flow of ideas reigns supreme. So, I certainly see your point, and I'm certainly not saying we need more problems to discuss! But at least we can discuss them with out poking each other's eyes out. ;)
Thanks for the correction on the @initblurt account 18+ million. I explained the error below on Kamran's comment.
For the record, I had few roles in steemit like Cr, greeter, curator of sc accounts...but I wasn't a witness there.☺.
And about these discussions, you may be right because these discussions show the freedom of the platform.
Oh, shoot, again thanks for clarifying. I really thoight you were a steemit witness and given an ultimatum by them, back around 4 or 5 months ago along with several others.
So many things to get straight and so little time! Hahaha
Thanks again for your kind words and contribution to the platform. :)
How much does it cost to run infrastructure for Blurt? We don't see hive witnesses and node operators asking for money to run those, and I'm sure that's a hell of a lot more costlier to run than Blurt. Without concrete numbers, it's going to have to be a no. And the bigger problem is, what happens if the payout isn't enough? What happens if Blurt drops and they are getting paid only half of what's needed to keep up the infrastructure? We we just say fuck it and let them keep getting paid while not hosting stuff or should they continue to host stuff and not get paid?
The ecosyth team is not running a witness, Hive top20 witnesses earn fairly well to be able to support other projects they earn something like 7 to 14k USD per month depending on Hive price. Blurt top 20 earn like 70 USD per month at current price and just covers cost and not even man hours.
That's fair. Is my assumption that Blurt costs a lot less to host accurate(not counting man hours, just straight bills that that would need to be paid)?
Yeah you can run a witness server for like $12 pm plus another backup server for the same. Hive servers in comparison cost at least 6x more.
Makes sense why they are running a proposal then. The proposal system on Hive seems to work a lot better since HBD is pegged to USD, which is how prices are determined. With Blurt, we never really know how much they are going to get paid. If the price of Blurt somehow shoots up, we are overpaying everyone in the proposal system. If it drops flat, we are underpaying. Has there been a good solution to this? Until then, I think post payouts might be the best way for everyone using the proposal system, and it allows for progress updates as well.
I was thinking the same thing. The price of blurt can double, triple....or get cut in half so easily. Maybe there is another way all together like you suggest "post payouts".
One thing I can say with confidence, is like @megadrive.....you too seem to really know your shit. Glad to have you here as part of the conversation. Thank you for taking the time! :) Oh....and that goes for @randula too ;)
Cc @worldtravelpro, yeah that’s the downside, it’s also not a smart system as doesn’t pay on completed milestones, I don’t particilarly like the system, makes more sense if it pays to a central dao of a few qualified business oriented trustees to evaluate and pay manually on completed deliverables.
In some ways it is better we don’t have a stable coin as there is less regulatory risk.
Also I've been wondering, in order to reduce costs could Blurt not put it's content on IPFS? Each witness should run a IPFS node alongside their blurt witness node and posts/comments can just be ipfs CID's instead of all the text to save users on fees on Blurt. And then the frontends can pull the data from the IPFS nodes that each witness will be running and the witnesses can just pin every single content to make sure it'll always be there.
Not only the top 20 witnesses in the hive, but they also have well-funded proposals in the system as far as I know?
No the Symbionts team isn’t on Hive and the Steem proposal system is blocked up by Justin Sun
I am not talking about symbiont team..I know they are not in the hive..I told that there are devs in the Hive who get well funded through the witnesses rewards and proposals. So, in the blurt we also give the opportunity to devs to funded for their projects through proposals. Otherwise devs will stop their works here.
Yes correct
As far as I know, there is a proposal system for Hive also and with the hive price, they are getting funds more than what they need. In blurt, it's not really easy to talk about the price.
For now, they have given their proposal and if we like we can vote on them. But if the price is going down and down, if they didn't get what they require for maintenance, maybe they have to add a new proposal and ask for a new budget.
I have to admit that I have learned more in this post than in everything I have read in parts.
I like to see how ideas, arguments, and positions are presented in a polite way. Perhaps not everyone agrees on important points, but obviously, it is a great step that is taken by being able to read the opinion of those who know about these technological issues.
Thank you all for making this topic very interesting and at the same time allowing people like me, who don't know anything about these technological twists and turns, to learn from your experience and knowledge.
Thanks @oneray! I'm really happy that this post reached so many people and spurred on lots of discussion and action.
Hope all will be fine and ctime will understand the point of view :)
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A compromise is to take a little and give a little. When everyone takes the attitude that what I say will be my way, it is interpreted as an effort to take control, not as a compromise. If the hearts in question mean a return to blurt's old way of voting, then I think it should be done. I prefer the old way of voting instead of hearts.
I don't want to get involved too much because the issues are so subtle and difficult to compromise. Actually, I should say personalities rather than issues. Maybe everyone should first realise what compromise means. And I appreciate your efforts in these matters.
my last post is a complete joke, but I have noticed that some people think it's real proposal😀
Heck I'll start up a triple X site featuring me and Jungle Girl for 50 million blurt a year! hahaha
But I don't think anyone is going to pay 5 blurt to see that let along 50 million! lol
Will there be a sudden existential threat to Blurt every few months, unheard of until the last moment, which requires large amounts of money and or power to be given to the insiders? It sure seems that way. We've been through a few, and now this "failsafe"... what's next?
Thanks for trying to explain it, but it appears we only have part of the story. I think those who want our money should clearly state their case, rather than have someone else (you) do your best (without really understanding the topic). This is highly inefficient and most likely to end in drama and/or lawsuits. It's the perfect recipe for misunderstandings.
Blurt can be divided into 3 groups. Insiders, investors, and content-creators. The insiders are the best paid group. Currently they are also the group not pulling their weight. I would like to see a proposal to fund all the investors and content-creators to ensure they are paid for their man-hours. Until that is in place, the insiders should not be asking for more money.
The way Blurt is held for ransom by the Foundation every few months is disturbing. "Give us more money/control or everything is going to explode!" That style of leadership will not go over well for long with most people.
I think if the Regency account and mega drive’s account voted more wide content that would be helpful no? I understand they may not have time but perhaps they could delegate to someone like dan
I think one of the biggest problems is price it’s just the price is so low that is difficult to get people to develop because they have to be paid right I guess on some of the other platforms just running the node is enough for a monthly wage
Thanks buddy. Appreciate the insights. Im just sharing info as I understand it, Im clearly open to more info and dialogue especially from ctime and company, and it has been provided in this post and I think that is great. I dont think the core insiders have the ability to get a message out like I do, as they ve been quagmired down in defensive rhetoric and more for far too long, meanwhile I jist sit bacl and listen and explain things in my travel pro way;) But I can say with a great degree of certainty that there is nothing nepharious going on from either side. Very much a difference of opinions and lack of effective communication and flow of information. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts always a great adition to my blog posts.
I am also curious about such a very specific list of the costs of running this ecosynthesis because for me 500 bucks a month is a bit, but a lot. In the sense, what exactly does it cost over there?
That the website is up and running automatically, creating accounts and burning fees?
server for several megabytes of code?
or transaction fees for services like paypal mastercard etc?
there are no specific numbers here:
https://blurt.blog/witness-category/@symbionts/symbiont-s-or-ecosynthesizer-or-upkeep-proposal-for-the-multi-functional-blurt-explorer
just how much for a day.
To be clear, this isn't an attack, it's just the community should know what it's paying for, right?
Good question, however sometimes in accounting you don’t have to go too granular if the amount is small, example in some countries you don’t need a tax invoice to claim petty expenses under say $500.
This proposal is more like $400 pm at current Blurt price for three services and a curation initiative, I can’t see how that even covers for any decent man hours and is an amount some people spend on their telephone bill for a small business.
I’ve worked in cost estimation many years ago, and to me this is not an unreasonable amount asked, consider the cost of hiring externally to build these services.
That's extremely low. Are they paying themselves at all? I know blockchain devs charge over $150/hour so if they are getting paid that much, that's not even 3 hours of work a month.
but question is... is it essentially at least one hour per month of work?
source
the second thing is that you give rates for top developers. the question is, do you need a guy who charges $ 150 per h? in my opinion, no because it is just things mostly concentrated on making frontend, not the blockchain itself.
@lazerlazer @megadrive
I like having the team local to me. I'm in a large city in the United States so that's causing the price to be higher, I'm sure I can find devs in lesser developed countries for cheaper, but I have the ability to say "Hey, lets talk about how the new feature is going, wanna grab coffee and discuss it?" with more expensive local teams. Plus from what I've seen, the dev teams based in the west seem to have a better understanding than those from the developing world. Its might cost more, but having things done right the first time is worth the extra cost, and it won't my my projects look like a fool's endeavor.
ok but the whole community pays for it and in my opinion there is nothing to keep people from expensive cities when hundreds of thousands of other teams from smaller and cheaper cities and cheaper countries are available.
Well posed question and comment my friend. Nothing wrong with asking questions. Just to be cleat when I mentioned 500 a month, that is combined with @eastmaels dev maintenance proposal #3 on the list. So it's really more like 300 a month a current prices for the ecosysnthesizer stuff......
This is starting look more and more like a negotiation of pay....and that would be a very normal thing to negotiate and discuss. ;)
If you and others had read my comment maybe this post and dozens of judgments about my blocking of Blurt's development would not have been made.
https://blurtlatam.com/witness-category/@ctime/riofif
This is crazy, for this money you can run the whole blockchain and all frontends
Printing additional BLURT without any limits is not a solution. We can live without this additional block explorer.
Thanks for sharing this, there is a lot to read and yes, I missed that one, so thank you for putting that link.
So what is the solution in your opinion?
Do you think it's no problem to let these services go down including the join page and @eastmaels maintenance stuff?
@saboin seems to think it's a pretty big deal, like a two year set back. What do you think of that?
So is it fair to assume that the core team and founders are trying to take advantage of the proposal money and there for you are blocking it?
What would be a fair amount for both proposals?
You wrote this to ecosynthesiser and he replied with a novel of a comment explaining otherwise....
Maybe a compromise of price is in order? Or is Blurt just better off without these services in your opinion?
Just trying to understand. Thanks for taking the time to explain what and why certain things are happening here.
as I wrote below, it can be even a criminal activity, if they don't have proper licenses it will be better for all of us when they close their account selling service. There's a free account creator by @fervi, if that was open sourced, it would replace symbionts service
Fervi’s solution also collects emails which is a user risk, does he have a privacy and GDPR policy? Otherwise that can be considered illegal.
Since he collects user data does he have a public facing person or company for GDPR user requests?
How are the emails stored? And what about the keys sent by the email server to the remain in sent archive server side?
To me collecting emails isn’t great, there is some user concerns about using Discord for the community, but email collection is far more intrusive.
come on @fervi told this many times:
GDPR policy is less serious problem than selling accounts for usd.
In my opinion the contrary.Could be for example used, (if user agree), for marketing campaigns and informing users who agree to receive them about news.
Registering via e-mail is also a way more intuitive for some people. And it makes them not so lost. When I was on hive, I personally created accounts for 2 people who, when they found themselves on the hive creation page, did not know where to start because it was not a standard login where we enter the username and email and set the password ourselves.
This is obviously a casual discussion but, Who knows? maybe it would even be possible to create a login via e.g. a google account or something like that. or some chat based on this database that would automatically create chat accounts for e-mails in this database?
This is obviously a casual discussion but, Who knows? maybe it would even be possible to create a login via e.g. a google account or something like that.
or some chat based on this database that would automatically create chat accounts for e-mails in this database?
megadrive already approved both blocked (now combined) proposals with a fake stake, you can't win with these cheaters
and that's the real shame.
The code will be released soon :P
All these questions I would have never thought to ask. I have no clue what GDPR is or the risks involved with collecting emails. Again this is why the community is counting on both you guys in so many ways.... The cordial and public communication is a big deal and a great source of information and education for the rest of us. So far I like what I see from both @megadrive and @ctime. Hopefully these conversations can lead to solutions that make everyone here happy.
There is just so many moving parts and things to consider, I truly think it's best both sides do not jump to conclusions regarding one another, but instead, just consult or question one each other when in doubt. Especially on my blog! ;) hahaha It's just more fun over here! lol
Blurt.blog doesn’t collect user info such as emails so I don’t think endorsed account creation methods should either. There are other ways to try limit to unique users like requesting them to perform social tasks or have to install and get a code from Google Authenticator or other 2FA type apps.
@fervi see above authenticator idea
If successful, it will be "opened" tomorrow.
This is good news, I wonder what @megadrive will say when you ask for 1.5M BLURT 😀
Ok.....thanks @ctime I read your reply below. I and I'm sure most of us did not know about potential legal ramifications in that regard. I'm eager to see what has to be said about that in response.....
So what is the deal with @fervi's free account site? Is there a link to that? I have not seen or heard much about it. Is it up and running? Why does it need to be open source to replace symboints service? Is it easy for new comers to find and use?
Hope you don't mind...I'm full of questions, cause frankly I like many others are very confused about what is going on as on the surface, it simply does not look good; so I really appreciate you taking the time to explain all this stuff, even if it's not your first time. So much info is splashed all over it's often hard to find and turns into a mountain of effort. I'm hoping this post can be the one stop shop info store we can learn from and build upon.
Yep, it's free
blurtcreator.intinte.org
Thanks Fervi! Looks good to me, from my user/blogger perspective, all I can say is awesome! Job well done! How do we drive traffic to it, or make it easily findable for people that want to join Blurt?
That being said, from a blockchain and tech experts perspective I suppose there are some concerns, have you seen @megadrive's comment?
https://blurt.blog/blurt/@megadrive/riqxjh
@saboin, @frankbacon, and @logiczombie you know your tech and blockchain stuff damn well too @ctime also I believe. Do you guys share @megadrive's concerns? Would love to see @fervi's new sign up page get a stamp of approval all around. Unfortunately my stamp doesn't mean too much.
We're working on a Blockchain 🤬
Not a social Network 🥓
Oh nice you have a free account creator? Ibrly believe ppl having to get blurt to open it was holding blurt back big time. Well done 💪🏻
Please see my comment https://blurt.blog/@megadrive/riqxjh
nice. drobna uwaga:
przed tym kolorem czerwonym powinno pisać !IMPORTANT a za tym. jeśli stracisz ten klucz stracisz dostęp do nowo utworzonego konta.
nam się to może wydawać zbędne ale zakładałem już z nowicjuszami konto i wiem że to mega istotny zapis bo ludzie nie czają po co te klucze.
Chyba lepiej :D
👍
I wish some talented writer would clarify the information in this video for the masses...
The rest speaks for itself 🥓
I personally am in favor of the Upkeep Proposal and have already voted for it. Anybody, who wants to do the same, can go here: https://blurtwallet.com/proposals and vote for the ecosynthesizer.com 'Upkeep Proposal'. 🗳️
How dare you!!! hahaha Hope you are having a great day buddy! :)
😂👍 Yes mate, having a lovely Sunday eve!!!
It would be so sad to see that some people dont want the growth of blurt. what do they stand to gain from it? The fact that i disagree with someone does not mean I should seek their fall no matter what.
Thank you for putting this post together.
Thank you Amazing Poly Carp! That is some cool name! Appreciate you stopping by and sharing your thoughts on these matters.
Thanks too. I'd like to travel the world too.. That has been one of the items on my list but until I get some stability. I am currently doing FullStack web development and software Engineering.
5
I'm a uniter not a divider. I'm always for compromise and a coming together. Working out our problems and differences, then combining our skills and efforts will lead to a better blurt and a better price. Blurt is better when we work together!
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