Bitte schreibe unter diesen Kommentar deinen Account-Namen, wenn du gegen meinen Vorschlag stimmst.
Please write your account name below this comment if you vote against my proposal.
RE: Delegation Removal ~ Community Voting
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Delegation Removal ~ Community Voting
@the-gorilla
Whilst this is a necessary topic of conversation and a decision that you feel needs to be made, this question should not be being asked by a user who has repeatedly criticised voting bots and self-upvoting
As a society, we attract people (and in this case followers) who hold the same beliefs as us, which is why we're attracted to each other. Which means that importantly...
the result of any poll that you post will have a natural bias towards your own views and not necessarily those of the Blurt platform
It's also been presented in such a way that represents your own bias to the subject as you have not mentioned any of the advantages that delegations can bring, nor why the ability to delegate was created in the 1st place. Why were delegations created? I can't imagine it was with the intention of allowing bidbots to exist.
I delegate a proportion of my Steem (obviously a different platform) to help encourage new authors to post more, engage more and succeed. They are empowered by this and add far more to the community than I alone can do through their content, comments and support for other users.
I see that you have over 6.6m Blurt - yet you choose to try to use it all yourself instead of helping the Blurt Social System by allowing others that you have grown to trust to distribute your rewards ability more easily and more fairly.
Imagine what 66 users, all empowered with 100,000 Blurt Power could do compared to you alone.
Now THAT, would be sociable
I also notice that you are maintaining your record of 100% self-upvoting and not proposing to ban this practise.
I think you have no idea what he is doing with his stake...
And if a whale doesn't want to vote manually they can always use a voting trail and follow a good community curation account with x%
But having a vote buying account like upvu will hurt blurt a lot more. Just take a look at trending and you will see a lot korean copy/paste posts upvoted to trending by upvu. If thats your vision of blurt then we can bury it and hop over to steem
Danke dir!
Zwei kleine Belege:
Meine letzten 300 Votes, 11,3% Selbstvotes
Meine letzten 100.000 Votes, 21,4% Selbstvotes
Bedeutet: Im schlechtesten Fall gebe ich 4/5 an die Community.
(Bei hohem Invest-Risiko für die Anlage meiner eigentlichen Altersversorgung)
Ich denke, wenn das alle machen würden, ginge es Blurt sehr gut! ;-)
Danke noch mal!
Thank you for the patronising response.
It's an immutable blockchain. Where everything is seen. So perhaps you are blinded by what you want to see and also have no idea what he is doing with his stake...
What I see is that he self-upvotes 100% of his posts. Which is anti-social. And therefore extremely hypocritical.
I know the damage that Upvu can do. I'm on Steemit and see what's it's done and would have absolutely no problem seeing bidbots banned. But... the important parts of my reply (which you've chosen to totally ignore - perhaps I will patronise you by suggesting that you review your own blinkered bias when replying) are the good that a delegation can do and shouldn't be removed in a knee jerk reaction because the person who's proposed its self-upvotes are decreasing in value with each delegation that UpVu receives.
Steemit is in the process of removing posts that have been upvoted by bots from the trending page. That solves your problem of the trending page looking bad.
Perhaps if you took a bit of time to digest what's being said rather than what you want it to say, you'll stop encouraging people to sell their investment and actually help Blurt to grow.
@double-u makes normaly 1 or 2 Post a week and if he self votes the 1 or 2 Post a week it is not bad . If he would make every day 4 Post and votes them with 100% that would be not good 4 sure .
@double-u says himself that self-voting is anti-social so why differentiate between 1 self-upvote and 10 self-upvotes? It's hypocritical.
I'm interested at what point you think @double-u's self-upvoting would not be good? I'm also interested in @double-u's opinion on this, especially having supported your comment (which implies agreement with your point).
1 post per week
2 posts per week
3 posts per week
4 posts per week
5 posts per week
6 posts per week
1 post per day
2 posts per day
3 posts per day
4 posts per day
5 posts per day
6 posts per day
7 posts per day
etc.
Why should I argue with you when you don't even read my comment properly. There you will already find my answer to your question.
This is an important point of discussion and if you don't want to get involved in it, you shouldn't have chosen to reply.
I apologise for over complicating the question and including options that you had already eliminated. I will simplify the question for you...
At what point you think @double-u's self-upvoting would not be good? I'm also interested in @double-u's opinion on this, especially having supported your comment (which implies agreement with your point and having also recently asked the question himself).
3 posts per week
4 posts per week
5 posts per week
6 posts per week
1 post per day
2 posts per day
3 posts per day
You will notice the significant difference between the options.
It's important so that users know at what point @double-u will start a campaign to stop them from doing what they are currently doing. Am I safe at self-upvoting 3 posts per day as your initial answer suggests? Or should I stop before that point?
I eagerly await your response now that I've taken the time to be far more pedantic in my reply which I apologise for not realising was a basic requirement in communicating with you.
If someone with doulble-u power would daily make 3 or 4 Post and would vote each of them with 100% that would not be good .
On the Other hand he makes every week his Pub a very important event here on Blurt .
Their People can make advertisment 4 post they think that they are important .
Chat with each other and a big part of these people that comment get a vote form Double-u . Werner votes Sunday,Monday and sometimes even on Tuesday people in the Pub .
So please do not pretend that he is only enriching himself with his votes
Unsocial are the people who constantly have to dictate what you can do and what not, or constantly spread bad vibes! @double-u makes more for the community than a large part of the people here who only whine and cry about a few % Selfvotes. Thought we are beyond the point that selfvotes do not give a damn if the community is not completely ignored. But it seems that the same monkeys from Steem and Hive always come over when the course of Blurt looks good.
Be glad that @double-u votes here on Blurt in the Communty and believes in the community (still).
He could also say "fuck you friends, I'm going home!" and he sells his blurt at the current price. With the total proceeds, he could make a daily return of over $800 through Osmosis Pools.
If it's all about the money, blurt is not the best place to go!
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
PS:
And this from one who delegates his complete BP to voting services over and over again. That explains everything.
´´´
the-gorilla delegate 5,001.085 BP to tomoyan 2021/12/05 14:02:3314,665,338 | 9f81f06
the-gorilla undelegate to tomoyan 2021/12/05 13:14:4814,664,392 | b22a0d9
the-gorilla undelegate to upvu 2021/12/05 13:14:3614,664,388 | 504ac0c
the-gorilla delegate 40,041.597 BP to upvu 2021/11/23 22:21:0914,332,915 | 5cf5c2e
the-gorilla undelegate to upvu 2021/11/18 20:13:2714,187,998 | 9dd4d93
the-gorilla delegate 5,008.424 BP to tomoyan 2021/11/14 19:38:2714,073,556 | 81509d5
the-gorilla undelegate to tomoyan 2021/11/14 19:36:2714,073,516 | 9b0e32a
the-gorilla delegate 15,025.275 BP to upvu 2021/11/14 19:36:0014,073,507 | 4721046
the-gorilla delegate 5,008.425 BP to tomoyan 2021/11/14 19:35:3914,073,500 | 69958af
the-gorilla delegate 10,020.491 BP to tomoyan 2021/11/09 16:08:2113,927,455 | ad043c5
the-gorilla delegate 10,020.491 BP to upvu 2021/11/09 16:07:5113,927,445 | bc756dd
´´´
Yes! We finally have a winner!!!
I complained about UpVu when I first joined and put my investment on hold as a result. Then I delegate all of my Blurt to UpVu.
Am I being ironic, or just another hypocrite?
As everybody else has told me, it's my Blurt, and I can do what I want with it.
Oh hang on, no I can't.
You're not done making your point?
source
Or perhaps you feign dislike for upvu?
I had thought the compromise reached had grandfathered you in, but maybe it stops you from giving more and you wish to find a workaround.
Either way, I stand by my supporting your right to use the service as it's your stake, an unpopular opinion I've advocated for weeks now as this topic has simmered.
In addition, your reply also highlights an additional bias that this "survey" will inherently attract.
When I first replied, I was the 1st to disagree with the banning of delegations. I had the balls to say something others believed but were too frightened to say through fear of people like you attacking them. A bit like the voting system in many autocratic countries.
If this is how the decision to end delegation is made, it's wrong. The process is wrong. And therefore the outcome will be wrong.
Very good points on bias and appealing to those you surround yourself with.
Honestly I have seen the chatter but I have not had time to take on a big part of this conversation, as I am not usually able to attend the pub and when I have time to be online I am trying to catch up with curation.
I need to try to do a post tonight before it is too late.
I have seen mention of the "Pub" quite a bit, but have no clue what this is. Can you enlighten me?
I am concerned that those of us that delegate properly will end up losing that portion of their HP. I am going to start un-delegating some of my smaller accounts so I save some before this goes down. It does seem to be heading down a path that is going to hurt people. As I un-delegate with the smaller accounts it will have less of an impact on my ongoing curation projects and protect myself.
Please hold off on un-delegating. This is someone who is very well respected in the blurt community bringing this motion and vote but members of the foundation still have not indicated they will be going any direction on this. I honestly do not think delegations are going anywhere. You will also not lose any funds that you have in delegation on the off chance that it does.
The pub is a sunday night activity lead by double-u that centers around a series of conversational topics. If you look under trending each week it will usually be near the top.
No need to panic yet. I also thought of you when talking about curation projects we all know and love that will be hurt. I did not want to use your name though as I did not know your stance on this particular issue.
Thanks for commenting and seeking clarification.
thanks. You are welcome to use my name.
If this gets messed too bad i will just cash in my "chips"... I do not have the time or energy, and if I miss something happening my accounts could get hurt.
I 100% echo this sentiment.
However, I've been reliably informed that megadrive is strongly against this proposal and that despite double-u's personal opinion, this "survey" holds absolutely no weight and no action will be taken. I shared your concerns and started powering down too in order to protect my investment. I've now cancelled this action and have confidence that the user who wrote this post is just starting a shit storm without consideration for the consequences.
Your post has been upvoted (24.20 %)
Delegate more BP for better support and daily BLURT reward 😉
Here
Thank you 🙂 @tomoyan
https://blurtblock.herokuapp.com/blurt/upvote
Thanks I will give you a heads up when I can.
Your post has been upvoted (21.73 %)
Delegate more BP for better support and daily BLURT reward 😉
Thank you 🙂 @tomoyan
https://blurtblock.herokuapp.com/blurt/upvote
Thanks as always.
Perhaps a better proposal would be to introduce a simpler rule to reflect the good that delegations are capable of. Simply...
You cannot receive upvotes from anybody you have delegated to
This can also be achieved in code.
Surely this solves the problem that you feel exists?
This will be a good step.
"You cannot receive upvotes from anybody you have delegated to"
It just seems totally logical to me!
@leifasaur
Delegation is an important part of the economy and the spread of rewards through the system if used correctly. And there are many important community curation projects that rely on it to grow and hold communities on blurt. There are whales that do not have time to vote but still would like to see their stake used, and they can funnel that into different communities through delegation.
Perhaps we can do more to push for people to do their own curation and show that it is much more profitable to do then using a vote buying service.
Bin dagegen und finde das ist leider sehr schlecht hier so zu machen, denn nun ist dafür gabz weit oben um dagegen zu Kommentieren muss man gabz weit Scrollen, wenn mans überhaupt findet. Das sollte man anders regeln.
Ich glaube das Delegation ein wichtiges Instrument ist und dadurch vieles hier möglich ist und viel Aktivität erzeugt. Klar hats hier und da Nachteile. Und wenn die Delegation ebtfertn wird, dann wird ein Unweg gefunden. Ist immer so.
Kann in den meisten Fällen durch simple voting trails ausgeglichen werden. Statt community accounts per delegation zu unterstützen wird deren vote halt mit x% des eigenen Votes gefolgt.
Dem würde ich nur zustimmen, wenn es keinenagebühr beim Voten gäbe. Aber so wäre das eben ein riesen unterschied.
Kannst ja mal ausrechnen was das kryptodenno dann zusätzlich kostet um nur ein Beispiel zu nennen. Sowas gibts ja noch viel öfters.
Dafür bekommt man aber auch die rewards aufs eigene Konto. Wer dann weniger rewards bekommt als die votes kosten hätte auch nix delegiert xD
Und im falle von verliehener bp in gewinnspielen wird halt ein vote verlost oder was auch immer. Da gibt es genug Möglichkeiten. Man muss immer sich vor Augen halten wie sich der upvu mist weiter entwickeln wird, wir haben den Blick in die Zukunft indem wir nur mal kurz bei Steem reinschauen und dort dominiert upvu alles. Wenn es andere Möglichkeiten gibt das zu stoppen dann wäre ich sofort dafür.
Nur auf steem schieben sich die wale ihre votes selber zu mittels upvu und die betreiber davon verdienen sich dumm und dämlich.
Aber ein Vote ist ja nicht das wie eine Delegation.
Ich habe z.B. als ich Anfing nicht gevotet, weils mir mehr gekostet hat. Habe dann Delegationen bekommen und konnte Voten. Das ist nicht das gleiche wie wenn ich einen Vote bekommen hätte und auch nicht wie wenn man mir folgen würde.
Aber du sagst ja schon selber die schieben es sich gegenseitig zu, dass können die dann auch ohne delegation. Genau so wie es nichts bringen würde Selbstvotes zu entfernen, dann macht man einen anderen Account und votet darüber.
Wie gesagt ich kenne das von unzäligen Seiten, die mal was versucht haben zu unterbinden und dann sachen einfach umgangen worden.
Wenn sich die nur gegenseitig voten würden, dann würde dieses Geschwür nicht groß weiter wachsen, nur ist es gerade schon bei 11,4 Millionen BP, also 11,4Millionen, die nur sich selbst voten und es wird weiter wachsen.
Und eine delegation hilft dir nicht weiter, wenn du wegen den Kosten nicht voten kannst, da fehlen Blurt und net BP. Es muss also erstmal der erste Post von anderen gevotet werden, die nicht alles in das Geschwür gepumpt haben.
Du brauchst aber doch nur zunächst gabz wenig damit du voten kannst und dann kommt ja schon durchs voten immer wieder was rein, was die Kosten deckt.
Durchs voten net, da bekommst du auch nur BP rein. Du musst gevotet werden, damit du Blurt bekommst oder halt einen Powerdown starten wenn man nur votet. Hatte anfangs auch mal den Fehler gemacht alles aufzupowern haha, musste dann erstmal wieder was schicken damit ich etwas machen konnte xD
@joviansummer
@double-u
is there no other idea to stop the sale of votes in this blurt. if it's about removing delegates can you embrace all new people or newbies using the #iduvts tag?
people who use the #iduvts tag maybe only the @offgridlife account that gets a lot of votes even @instablurt will vote for him every day. I'm also surprised that the content of ordinary people who don't have a lot of BP gets so little attention from these big guys in BLURT. now you say you want to remove the delegate option. what about the people who build a community that only has 100k power even that is delegated by small people. but looking at all the posts of people on blurt who just joined and thrived here with their content not getting any big attention. I guess you double-u don't dare make any real rules in BLURT. by banning vote seller accounts or delegating BP to get votes. like @offgridlife used UPVU voice service and now he has agreed to remove the same delegate as you. most people in BLURT don't dare to speak because BP is lame even though BLURT was created for freedom of speech, please say anything here. even TEAM BLURT doesn't make DOWNVOTE option therefore people are free to do anything here and buy votes by delegating their BP to vote seller account.
As not a part of top 20 , writing my name here @kamranrkploy
@yayogerardo
Primary reason: Not enough discussion over this term has been made in a wide scale and removal of delegation would hurt the economy of blurt. Self righteous self voters will benifit the most but only for a short term and thus created a large downward spike in price. hurting everyone equally.
on that note I am not against the removal of bidbots. bidbots has already been proven to be harmful in steem where it was dirst implemented. removing this is a great step forward.
one more thing I want to add:
not enough users to be onboard with this consesus issue.
ok one more:
Removing delegation feature is at this moment impossible. not enough human recourses. need more devs. LOTS MORE DEVS.
///
This whole debate is good though. Its good to see where the minds are regarding this platform. but sadly I dont think many know the full landscape of the situation.
cheers
Ich bin definitiv auch gegen die komplette Abschaffung von Delegationen, fände eine Beschränkung aber eine gesunde Alternative. Diese könnte wegen mir auch drastisch sein - wegen mir max. 10 oder 20 % der eigenen BP.
LG @kryptodenno