Ok, so I have seen a lot of opinions to @upvu in the past weeks. My opinion is clear, the service sucks and isn't for the better of the blockchain! 👎
As it seems, @upvu will be staying... but look at this 💩!!!
These crap posts are trending??? No way people! Something has to give!
This 💩 has to disappear off of the trending page!!!
This isn't Blurt - This is a disaster!
I am addressing our developers! Please do something about this. Pushing fake crap posts to the trending page isn't what Blurt stands for!!!!🤬 We have so many awesome bloggers here. Bring out the garbage and make way for them!
Temporary Solution : Until this can be fixed how about they remove the Trending and Hot buttons.
Very, very good solution!!! 👍❤️🏆
I have suggested this a few times. I also suggest a better Blurt delegation feature where people can delegate or stake a maximum of 100,000 Blurt for 1 vote per day or a Tipping option where we can tip or promote really good posts to a trending or promoted page ??? Upvu needs some competition. How do you make things better ? Competition.
Yeah I mean it doesn’t bother me as I don’t look on trending but this is offputting to new uesers coming for the first time. Or those thinking of coming over from hive etc
international platform
It’s not the Chinese like practical thought says old stones posts are detailed but a lot are consistently 10 words with upvu. But anyways lol but done with my opinion on this one lol leave it to everyone else now 😂
You said it mate!👍
or perhaps all delegations expire after like, 90 days or something
Or no delegations at all.
Interesting proposal.... 👍
i really like the idea of delegations as a replacement for SUBSCRIPTIONS
It is a good way for people to support Curation projects and tags.
and a really good way to help out the newbz without risking your own money
i mean, if you give 10 blurt to a newb and they stop posting after a couple of months - - those tokens are lost
a delegation is much better because you can just re-delegate that to someone else
I even delegated 450,000 to Upvu to understand how it all worked and at least provide some English posts to Trending but people got very very angry. Something needs to be done. That is for sure.
I tagged you under a comment from @blurtbot. He made an awesome proposal to let other variables decide over "Trending" i.e. comments, diversity of votes, etc. etc...
So upvu is a voting bot? Yep, something must be done. I know what about downvotes? Sigh. A real worry.. disappointed to see this.
It’s an upvote bot that upvotes your posts based on how much you delegate to it. So it’s pretty much vote selling. You get an upvote, they get the curation rewards from that vote, plus the curation rewards from other posts they upvote with your delegation.
They exploited people’s greed on Steem to grow big, and now they’re dictating what witnesses do on Steem.
They tried to do the same on Blurt, but we made it abundantly clear that we do not condone their actions. Then they threatened all the people who ran witnesses on both chains that they would kick them out of top 20 on Steem if they kept running a witness on Blurt. A bunch of witnesses left Blurt because of this.
Yeah, removing the delegation feature is the solution.
I've linked before to the steemit post that announced it - and the reason for it - whales too lazy to vote.
Then you'll have users whine that delegations are useful!! Well... tokenise your project and fund it that way. More BLURT-money needs to circulate - fewer beggars and moaners.
Despite seeing delegations very useful. I'm for removing them to have a better trending page and no upvote selling.
I agree, but for another reason, that it will create more of a flow of funds. The delegation-as-extraction algo is a stagnating system that devolves into worthless posts earning coins with minimal effort or interest - a mining system.
The thing I learned about delegation in real life is not good at all. Since the pandemic started I started learning so much about what's going on. And I found delegating a lot of things to others a very big problem that shifted the world for the worse. We delegated our finance to them, we delegated our education to them, we even delegated our health to them. That's why I prefer people to control their own stake instead of delegating it to others. Delegations caused a lot of problems, not only in steem, but in all the world. As I saw somewhere, the dependencies are what we should control.
:-) that was my mantra (maybe @rycharde) - control the dependencies - your dependencies - then freedom comes as a consequence.
via negativa
at what point are people going to figure out how to focus on posts they actually want to read and stop worrying about everything else ?
who cares about "trending" ?
it's actually a great smokescreen
if CNN is trying to dig up dirt on "blockchainsocialweb3" and they look at blurt and see a bunch of korean and vietnamese shit-posts, they're sure to turn their attention somewhere else
which is good news for us
I've mentioned this so many time in Discord - should do here as well - why does someone look at shit, then complain it's shit!? Trending within a tag may be meaningful - look there - Trending(all tags) is just a money chart. Why is this shit getting voted? Figure it out. Does it really make any difference to you, as a user? I would never look at Trending(all tags) apart from sometimes to see if there is anything vaguely interesting I've missed. Does anybody look at trending on twattr or fakebook and complain?
Create your own Blurt - follow, reblurt, mute, vote.
Look at your feed - not trending!
100% THIS
delegation still beats the pants off of a patreon style subscription model
Yep I'll be one of those briefly whining :)
Was some weeks, maybe months, ago I posted the steemit post announcing delegations - and the reasons. So people thought that was good, whales would spread their power a bit - then what happened, the arrow went in the opposite direction, with the smaller accounts delegating to large accounts! lol.
Not in all cases. I was a part of a group there called familyprotection that was ran by a woman, canadian-cocanut. She received a large delegation by one of the original petitioners for delegations in my understanding, Jamesc. As well as FTG to a lesser extent, who was one of the original miners I believe.
The delegations she has received from him and others allowed for many great things. To bring awareness to the governments kidnap and child abuse systems, and perhaps more important to myself was the actual help to families who are the target of this abuse. During my time of involvement with this program, I watched several struggling families aided with groceries for their kids, help with utility bills and much more. Much of which was made possible because of good hearted delegators.
So it wasn't always flowing upward. Not all of us who receive delegations use them in selfish ways.
But, even if we did, that should be between the person who owned the stake and the person receiving it for whatever reason they were given it.
Right, so back to the future. The way to support projects is to create a project account, fund it and give the manager the posting key while the funder retains ownership.
Property and functions are different and separate.
The other way is to create tokens and sell them - with or without incentives.
Need more flow of money, else this can become stagnant and routine.... could easily become Steem.
Based on that structure, the only difference I can see from that side of the equation is the person being delegated to is receiving the curation rewards. Would it then be fair to say it's that aspect of the equation you dislike?
For an example I'll use myself as Jacob has given me a large delegation. Do you find it repugnant that he gave me this ability to curate and receive the rewards from that?
As far as running a second account, I spend to much time on one account, lol. I honestly don't know how you keep up with it.
Yes, the jamec delegation was fantastic. I didn't realise he also delegated to CC. I know the Tribe Steem Up/Abundance Tribe was awesome - people thought that was circle jerking but I know for a fact there was a lot of vetting there, eg if you posted memes, like someone did, and it was brought to the tribes attention, you'd lose the upvotes. So many good content creators stayed around too because of that. And I've watched struggling Venuzuelans - people from all walks of life - have their lives transformed by some kind and well placed delegations.
I never interacted with him personally, but his benevolent nature has allowed for so much good to be done. I was humbled greatly watching the use the Family Protection group put it to. I was honored to be a part of that structure and be offered a way that despite my financial hardship was able to contribute in making real peoples lives better and be able to see it.
During my time with them, I was able to generate enough rewards to donate
158.404 Steem
141.862 SBD
I also won several raffles article61 was having for silver coins, and had two of them shipped to struggling families, and the third to one of the quietest yet supporting member behind the scenes of Family Protection.
The ability to set up this structure was aided immensely by the kind heart of jamesc, and while I don't know him I'll always think of his blessing in funding such an initiative that Canadian Coconut and Markwhittam were passionate about.
That entire structure sold me on the fundamentals of this economic system. In most walks one like myself is impotent to help another except with my back. I'll always be grateful to have been given the environment thanks to his kindness and their vision to help in a financial way.
Never thought of that solution - don't know why. IT's a good one. But then there has to be some other way to code it as some accounts do a helluva lot of good, or try to anyway. Take for instance @gardendiary, which I'm trying to get off the ground to encourage gardening content and thus support the Blurt chain in that way, doing what I can. No way can I fund it myself to the extent it gets large enough to truly encourage people to write content for surety of upvote (all manual of course). So delegations are welcomed and useful and used for good - with the aim of helping more blurt circulate (gained funds used for challenge winnings, upvotes etc)
It's alsmot like there needs to be communal funds and an application process to get them, suggesting how you would benefit the Blurt chain by recieiving a delegation, and say three witnesses woudld have to approve the project with a review by all witnesses say every three months. I know I know, it's kinda dictatorial, just throwing stuff out there.
The idea I mentioned below, creating a "project account", is one way, which was common pre-delegation on steemit. I myself worked as a curator for one such projects in my early days on steemit - made enough from it to not be a "struggling newbie" within maybe 3 months. Anybody can do the same if such a system existed here.
I can't recall pre delegation days! I think that's why I couldn't imagine life without it, but am intrigued by the idea.
I’ve heard someoen suggest just not being able to delegate to ppl with more stake than you which sounds like a fair idea.
Words sound "fair" until one codes the idea - then you see how to game it!
eg I can create 1000 small accounts that all vote as one trail - users can delegate to those ;-) tedious, but with a simple front-end is not hard to code.
There is also nobody with the authority to auto-undelegate apart from the actual delegator. So if the delegatee accounts becomes bigger than any one delegator, what would happen?
;-)
That is an important algorithmic point that I haven't seen before. The "chain" cannot act for users without their express permission - the chain itself does not "know" user keys in such a way as it can use them without the action coming from that account.
well, if witness votes can be "set to automatically expire after one year" then delegations can also be "set to expire automatically after 90 days"
Yeah I always say that sites are as good as the people on them in the most part it’s the users that need to grow lol to keep up with the platforms
Then whales can still delegate to smaller users
exactly
and pretty much anyone can help out a newb with low funds
Shit, thanks for the goss. Vote selling sucks. The only way I'd be happy with something like that is if it was for whitelisted authors that wrote consistantly excellent content. Say if Garden Diary took delegations and voted any gardening post by that author knowing they were quality. Ah, I dream of utopia.
I still believe just deleting the code for trending entirely would make a difference. I'd much prefer a good tag referencing system and content streamed by quality over votes (impossible to algorithimise - did I make that word up?) - then it wouldn't matter. Who reads trending apart from newbies? I think older crew know never to pay attention to it.
Why did 'trending' come across anyway - was it just a duplication of the original Steem code? It was always such an issue there.
If I ran the world...
Precisely. Blurt is a fork of Steem, so most of the code is exactly the same.
yep
that's what curation trails are for
Absolutely. But they are also used to get rewards from people who get mega votes by virtue of their mega votes, not necessarily because of good content. Hence the conundrum.
we can't police "quality" without forming the same type of vigilante gangs chasing everyone off of hive
people pay ridiculous money for all kinds of stupid things in the real world
and they're perfectly free to spend their money as they wish
I agree with that too! 🤪 I guess that's the truth right.. you kinda want some elegant solution but in the end it's always going to be unfair in some way. The vigilantes of Hive just boggle me as they totally have gone so far one way it goes against what they profess to stand for, and is often hypocritical too.. but I don't need to talk about that as we all know the story!
Still, if we didn't have a Trending page we could move on to talking about something other than the unfairness of the Trending page 😄🤦♀️
Just chewing the fat of possibilities...
100% THIS
noted, do not delegate
NEVER EVER WOULD.
Yepp, an upvote bot... At least it's better than a downvote bot 🤣🤖
I think it would be good to bin trending and to bin sponsored too, and have just one chronological feed
yep
level the playing field
Someone told me when I first came to 'never look at the trending' posts. I see why now. If that's what outsiders see when they look at blurt it's not a great advert is it. On the other hand does this shite trending only occur during certain time frames? It'd be interesting to see coz then it only really affects certain parts of the world by the looks of your screenshot.
Last week I did see one of my posts on the trending page. Hoorah
the "blurt homepage" should be totally random
the whole "trending" concept is broken
I AGREE!!
Same here!!!! 👍
I really resonate with your directness. My brother form another mother!
Thank you for caring enough to keep this a hot topic. It certainly deserves to be one. - Reblurted!
Thanks for the reblurt my BFAM! 😜 Maybe it will be seen!?!?!?!? 🍀🙏
Hmm. Have you translated any of these posts?
I've read several of the oldstone posts and they are among some of the best I've read on block chain since joining in 2017. Thinking if you have read them, it points to the fact that quality is a subjective lens.
If those posts are so awesome. Show me please someone commenting them. Seeing them all without comments make me worry about all the platform. If those posts are so good, why no one is commenting them ?
Here is what appears to be the last time I curated one of his posts.
https://blurt.blog/kr/@oldstone/4-23
I believe he probably doesn't receive many comments for two reasons.
One, as I pointed out most will not vote for others who are stingy with their oen votes, whether because of VTS or self voting. This is then compounded because he doesn't answer comments from what I've seen either.
It was for this same reason when Stephen Molyneux came to Steem I dropped him from my follow list after about 3 posts. He never interacted, never voted. I had to many I did follow and interact with to use my stake claims on someone who didn't interact. I defend his right as a creator and wallet holder to post, but human nature is what it is. 😀
I'll be happy to see you commenting this as well : https://blurt.blog/blurt/@clixmoney/rbo352
I have no opinion on this person or their post. I can only speak for oldstone, whom I found to write some of the best content I've read here. I can say if he didn't use upvu he would be on my follow list for sure.
In no way do I defend all authors of upvu, just as I wont for them many who dont use that service yet post what I consider a shit post (actifit, selfies, what they had for breakfast etc).
I do know that there is a coal list and folks who are stealing posts are placed on it. Other than that, I pass by most posts here and mostly only ever have time for my large follow feed and comment sections which often takes me hours daily to sift through.
My point with upvu was that not all using that service do so because they are low effort or stealing their posts. I can guarantee you oldstone was heavily scrutinized as the whales initially against upvu were targeting oldstone which is how the account came to be on my radar. I was curious and checked his posts and was shocked at how great they were (to me).
perfecto
shockingly, the world is not 100% pureblack or purewhite
I just wonder if other trending posts are generated automatically by an algorithm. Look at so many posts we translated here : Let me try to translate posts ! with @ultravioletmag. They seem really strange and make no sense.
I'm not really sure how the front ends decide, but as I mentioned elsewhere I believe yesterday I did notice on examining that the trending on my friend Freakeao front end blurtlatam was a little different than blurt blog. So I do think that there could be tweaks made to that algorithm that wouldn't necessarily be an erosion of property rights or free speech. Perhaps a tweak to the front end code that determines the qualities for trending that could exclude posts with a self upvote or VTS service. I'm a little wary on this, but as a proponent for free speech and property rights I do acknowledge that the front ends themselves are property belonging to those creating and paying for their uptime and maintenance. I do believe having said that one who owns a front end would need be cautious not to become overzealous in the criteria.
I sometimes also wonder how much of this is a language barrier. I just answered some comments on my most recent post that made little to absolutely no sense to me, yet I can't say for a surety that to them it did and something in the translation made it nonsensible.
Not directly tied to this, but after a few months here and not a lot of English speakers at that time I had begun taking offense to all the folks calling me sir. I started telling people I wasn't their sir, and I was no better than they are and they shouldn't think of me that way. This seemed to spark confusion on their part as they tried explaining to me why I was a sir. I finally dropped it, although some were kind enough to entertain what surely must have seemed to them to be a grumpy old man, hahahaha.
We are talking about different things here.
I'll just copy past my comment :
I checked the post I'm sharing in my post. It's leading here : https://game.dclick.io/posts/@cjsdns/7984c2
I don't know what that mean, by I see the post there with no author.
And here is the tool they seem to use : https://dclick.io/
It's interesting if those are real people, or just that tool generates those posts.
Maybe @oldstone should know ppl do bother to translate on here and he could be come a valid community member and not have to just only rely on upvu.
That guy is not even replying to comments on his own posts. I wouldn't expect him to be an active community member. lol
🤣🤣🤣
Which one do you mean?
Oldstone is the exception I translated a few and it was just ten random words Or so.
I presume oldstone copied and pasted... Sounds like some news article on the Ukraine war... Maybre he wrote it... but I don't think so...
Maybe we can ask him / her @oldstone
It's not thaaaaat important.... 😂 Important is, that upvu posts disappear from the trending page OR the trending page disappears 😜
Trending with no comments. What a great thing to invest in. lol
You must translate and read some of these posts are really cool. They give a glimpse into the life of people from other countries.
Some of these posts are too short and hold nothing of value but I think someone must buy whole lot of Blurt and outbid votes given by Upvu.
Why no one is commenting them if they are so good ?
Well maybe there are some good posts... I didn't see them... All I saw were old Steemit recyclers and really dumb copy and paste crap.
FACT IS: Something has to be done! No sense in defending this crappy landing page, that every new visitor on Blurt gets to see...
If I saw that, I'd be gone!
As practical thought says oldstones are actually good and he accidentally falls in with the others I translated a couple and they were just like 10 random words tho.
Yeah, I wish those who are defending those posts to comment them. It's easy to translate from English to Korean to reply. lol
zoiks, i'm not "defending" these specific posts
i'm "defending" the right of anyone anywhere to post anything and upvote anything they wish
the hunt for "quality" is a fool's errand
We're not in hunt of quality. We are in hunt of copied and pasted posts put in trending. So, people who will join blurt, will not see the awesome work done by the community. But a bunch of Korean posts, not even clear what's written there using this service https://dclick.io/ to promote them. And who knows, maybe those are posts generated by bots. Not even real people. But a very good developer, who created an algorithm to milk blurt.
"trending" is a measure of money-votes
NOT a measure of "quality"
So, it's ok if a bot generates posts and make a few accounts share that content and milk the system ?
also, i love robots
But what about our right to moan about it? Lol don’t we have free choice too?
exactly
Still waiting on answer, as to which post/s is/are meant...?...
i'm "defending" the right of anyone anywhere to post anything and upvote anything they wish
the hunt for "quality" is a fool's errand
Hey, we're both fine with that!!!! I will repeat it slowly once again for you! E V E R Y B O D Y C A N P O S T W H A T T H E H E L L T H E Y W A N T H E R E ! ! ! ! ! I A M F I N E W I T H T H A T ! ! ! ! ! !
Why should I hunt for quality, when it could be on trending instead of the sh## posts? THAT IS MY PROBLEM!
i'm not blaming you
i'm simply suggesting an alternative method
your "complaint" is the whole reason people start their own curation trails
everyone wants to find interesting posts
not everyone finds the same posts interesting
if the trending page ain't what you're looking for
look somewhere else
Then please let them do it in TRENDING, where it belongs!!!!!! 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
But EXACTLY THAT is what a trending page is for!!!!! To show me cool new stuff!!!!!
Did you read the ones I translated?
Okayyyyy :-) hehe you are right ...
Gracias por compartir tu publicación en #Blurt. Tu esfuerzo significa mucho para nosotros; por eso has recibido un voto positivo.
Te invito a votar por @blurtlatam como Testigo / Witness
Thanks fellas!!! ❤️
Also, keep in touch with Blurtconnect-ng family on Telegram and Whatsapp
Thanks guys!!!!❤️
@famigliacurione - The only REAL post between all the 💩 on "Trending"!!!! 👍
Still with only 5 comments, I wish to see active posts more rewarded, because even in centralized social media, you see the number of comments play a big role in pushing the content trending. I didn't like as well that the numbers of views were removed, I remember having them in steem. That was a nice time to feel how many people saw your post even if it doesn't make a lot of money. ☺
Maybe the proposals will be seen 🙏👍
for example, 35 replies (most of them are from myself) but 2,000 views ?
showing unique page views is a basic functionality
just turn on your translator
Why they have not comments on them though ?
c'mon
not everything worth reading gets comments
you want comments ?
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/7526-freedom-of-speech?page=10&post_number=236
page 10, post number 236
I did... 😂😂😂😂
i guess different people like different stuff
i guess you can't control how people spend their money-votes
They can earn till they drop for the likes of it... But why am I being punished, by having to read this crap?!?!
For me the trending page is a place to discover new bloggers, new topics and new friends, not a place to avoid!!!!! I don't want to see the same crap from the same sh## posters, day for day, week for week, month for month etc.... Is that so hard to comprehend????
nobody is forcing you to look at trending
i generally find interesting people by reading some of the followers of people i already know
or just scanning the "all new posts"
The best of the new posts.... are the trending!!!!
But they aren't because they are being blocked by crap posts....
I though you are a logical zombie...?
Here is how the Steemit Trending Page would look like without Bid Bots and Self Votes!
https://peakd.com/steemit/@trufflepig/non-bot-trending-2020-03-16
YES AWESOME!!!! 😍🥰😍🥰😍🥰😍🥰😍🥰😍🥰😍🥰
BLURT NEEDS THIS!!!! @megadrive
the most popular thing is not always (or even usually) the thing that i find the most interesting
i found you by reading people i already follow
The argument is going in an absolute wrong direction.
For me (and most likely everybody else here) trending means new, cool, original, awesome and authentic stuff from good bloggers!
Then change the name to "SHIT POSTS" !!!!!!!! 😂🤙😂🤙😂🤙😂🤙😂🤙😂🤙
"trending" is purely a matter of "biggest money votes"
NOT "quality"
it always has been
Let's change that! 💪
So I had to come here and share oldstone just liked my post !!! He or she is real 😅🙏💪 @practicalthought
Congratulations, your post has been curated by @dsc-r2cornell. You can use the tag #R2cornell. Also, find us on Discord
Felicitaciones, su publicación ha sido votada por @ dsc-r2cornell. Puedes usar el tag #R2cornell. También, nos puedes encontrar en Discord
A classic problem that will continue. Where trash will be more valuable than quality thoughts. It's sad when trending posts are measured by the amount of money they spend and make, not by the quality that many people can get.
Oh my god, this post should be trending. With 123 comment and this one is 124. lol
at what point are people going to figure out how to focus on posts they actually want to read and stop worrying about everything else ?
who cares about "trending" ?
it's actually a great smokescreen
if CNN is trying to dig up dirt on "blockchainsocialweb3" and they look at blurt and see a bunch of korean and vietnamese shit-posts, they're sure to turn their attention somewhere else
which is good news for us
Hey I’m British we love a good moan, you can’t take my freedom of moaning away from us 🤣 how is that decentralised?
i love this stuff
suggestions without threats of coercion
That CNN stuff of yours, is wildest speculation...
"Trending" is the the middle menu button of 3 in the main navigation!!!!
the "trending" page is simply a billboard purchased by the largest stakeholders
that's all it is
I’m just glad there is finally some drama else the quiz would be rly quiet this week with questions
everyone should focus more on what they like about blurt (as an information exchange) and worry less about the "market price" and what everyone else thinks about it
anything that can increase decentralization and censorship resistance is generally a good thing, but i can also see a pretty strong argument for - never making any changes at all
the whole idea is not to make blurt the "forever and ever most biggest popularest thing"
the whole idea is to use blurt to cultivate ideas and find and or create the next (less-wrong) thing before the whole ship gets lost (nothing lasts forever)
you want comments ?
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/7526-freedom-of-speech?page=10&post_number=236
page 10, post number 236