Killing is not murder.

in worldview •  4 months ago  (edited)

You can't run the plow and be animistic.

Yes, I can.

Technology is not values neutral.

Yes, it is.

What makes you think that holding cattle had made the ones who first held cattle, "them whipping and beating them all day long"?

If people were animistic until the invention of the plow, did they stopp respecting the very creatures they have hunted and eaten earlier? Is to hold animals the way we do it today on an industrial level, inherently wrong from your point of view because it is assumed that humans in general are ungrateful towards what they eat?

Do you welcome or not welcome dependence? And is this, what makes a difference?

I personally don't think that way. Human beings are well aware of the fact that they are deeply dependent on other human beings, who are able to do the kill. If we, as meat eaters, put guilt and shame onto those, who do the killing for us, we are wrong in doing so.

We are wrong to refuse to be dependent on the animal killers and we unnecessarily shame ourselves for not being able to do the killing ourselves.

Understand the difference between murder and kill

Since we killed, and still kill animals for eating them, it would be rational to respect the killing nevertheless and respect it even more so, since we lost our killing capability as individuals.

"Even more so" is needed since the treatment and death bringing methods are "even more so problematic".

But to disrespect the killing acts altogether is utterly irresponsible.

That is the opposite of regaining and re-establishing respect for the killed animals for what they give us. But to put pity onto them, which is the opposite of respect; it is pathetic.

Now, if you pity an animal, it is because you pity yourself. If you respect the animal, you must respect the fact of it being killed for you to live from it.

Have you ever talked to anyone working in an animal farming/ killing / meat factory? You think the people there like their jobs? They have pleasure in killing them? No, they don't. Only a totally insane person would enjoy that. Which would make him a murderer, not a death bringer out of necessity.

Pathos is pathos, and ethos it ethos, to conflate the two is the human error.

To pity animals - instead of thanking them to have given their lives for us - is the pathos. To be grateful and respect that they had died for us, is the ethos. You cannot eat their meat and cry and suffer over your plate. But what you can do is to say a prayer and eat with dignity. Instead of making a fool out of yourself.

You do not come into the house of someone and puke out your

disrespect for both the killed animal and your host, in your zeal to appear as a virtuous person. Since you showed your very vice right then and there.

Becoming a guilt ridden populace, which now puts virtue on non meat eaters and evil on meat eaters is pathetic. No ethos to be found.

If you, on the other hand, respect the killing,

and you respect those human beings who bring death to animals on an industrial level (because that's what they do), you respect the killed animals as well. Why would you not? Is there any reason to think, and to feel towards any of it, without respect?

But if you think of yourself as a worthless parasite who,

because you are unable to kill yourself the animal from which flesh you eat, and therefore, unable to worship and be grateful towards what you eat, you will propel yourself and others into ever more guilt riddance. We can see this shame and blame utterance on a global level. The powers in place will gain that message from you and take you by your word.

So, ask yourself: are you able to eat in dignity and to honor the animal and to respect the humans who do the killing?

If you say "yes, I could do that", then do.
If you say "no", you must show yourself responsible for why you lack such respect and worship?

Since the era of being purely animistic changed into theistic worldviews and from there into countless different sub-world views about human nature, it is up to us as individuals to make the intellectual effort to regain respect for animals being killed by us, since this "us" are the very means we nowadays use to feed populations. But of course, we never lost our being animistic views in the first place.

The solution cannot be to not eat meat, but to respect the very fact that the killing is done for us by ourselves under such difficult circumstances (to which we will find better ways).

No, technologies are not "evil" in and of themselves. That is a logical fallacy.

But charging technologies with moral characteristics is a huge problem. Promising technology as a "general problem solver" alone is wrong.

A technology is both a problem-solver and a problem-causer, and nothing in the world can eliminate this fact.

To characterise a technology as unilaterally beneficial and unilaterally destructive is to attune the individual to that technology. If individuals allow themselves to become attuned and disengage from viewing such a technology as something that needs to be thoroughly considered before personal use, they may misconstrue it as a free pass for some kind of liberating purpose (on a collective level). This is never the case. Liberating can be true on a personal level, but it doesn't necessarily have to be true on a collective level.

Promise, advertisement and propaganda will always say

what for it can be used in a utopian way. They will always say it's for "the very sick and the needy, for the very disadvantaged and poor", at the same time though, they will say that this tech will "give you personal freedom".

Now, they can say whatever they want. It's not important what they say, it is of importance what you inform yourself about. Set your priorities.


I have not watched the video in total. So my handling of the topics touched is not exhaustive.

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  ·  4 months ago  ·  

Have you considered studying the branch of philosophy known as logic? I think it would greatly enhance your debate and discussion skills. It allows intellectuals to converse using an accepted common language, and helps individuals avoid reasoning fallacies.

What do you mean by studying the branch of philosophy? You mean, going to university? To that, my answer would be "no", I haven't considered doing that.

If you mean, if I am considering to study philosophy in the autodidactic sense, I answer, that's what I already do, since I am reading authors who's books are or can be seen as philosophical, and watch podcasts providing me with philosophical questions/contents.

Tongue in cheek: Do you think I need to greatly enhance my debate and discussion skills? ;) I personally like to engage in debates and I appreciate the challenge within. Whether my skill in using logic is advanced or even there, probably can only be answered by someone who is better in using logic and more advanced than I am.

What I so far learned about philosophy, is to become able to be more precise about terms and use them according to their definition. For example, that there is a difference between "argumentation", "dialogue", "conversation" and "interview".

That is why I have chosen my headline in the way I did. There is a difference between "kill" and "murder". And there is a difference between "fear" and "being uncomfortable" as another example.

I observe, that when I watch people talking, they often talk past each other, since they do not make the effort to come clear with their definitions. The less they are in a personal relationship, the more I see it would be needed to clarify terms. The better they know each other, very much of what is being done in the minds of the individuals is to translate a falsely used term from the other in a more appropriate one, since they became better interpreters towards each other. And the usage of precise definitions becomes less significant. Which does not mean that it wouldn't be still needed.

Do you see a reasoning fallacy in the above post? If so, I would be delighted if you point it out.

  ·  4 months ago  ·  

You are perfectly clear on your words.
But Drutter is i believe a vegan.

A lot of people in the killing industry though, can careless about the suffering of animals.
Some do and some dont, they do it for money, with zero pity or clean techniques.
they indeed murder the animals, thats the term.
i was a fervent vegan so i have seen a lot and emotions take over.
also i had a friend working in this industry and he told me a lot of details.

In france people love meat , they kill it themself or buy at butcher but in general no one feels guilty eating meat or drinking milk ( another terrible industry ).
Technology wont solve it all indeed but most people have no clue on what technology can really do and its coming in lightspeed.

Interesting infos...i guess you heard of WEF
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A very close relative of mine works at a pig farming place (not a small one). I can tell first hand that he is not a murderer. But since that kind of work wears on you, if you let it too closely affect you, you need to have a distant attitude towards the killing. This appears to other people as "coldness" and being cruel. While it's the opposite.

And if you say, you work at such place, the ever same reaction is: "How horrible! I couldn't do that! Poor animals, poor you!" But no one in sight, who respects it with words and attitude that what my relative does, deserves their respect. And as I said, if there are folks who really do enjoy their work and couldn't care less, they must be murderers in heart and mind.

  ·  4 months ago  ·  

There are some who are murderers...i saw plenty of videos with awful treatments.
But i agree , hypocrits will just eat their steak and say what you mentionned.
nevertheless , its a tough job ...and i do see technology could help in killing animals very " properly" if i may say ... and no more human hands on them.
I dont refute technology in anyways.

If you let people doing their work, and if you let them think for themselves, and do not interfere with regulations over regulations and bureaucracy, they can unfold what genius is in them. One needs to have the freedom to think for oneself. Yes, I am not against technology myself, though I am for being thorough in advance, and not jump on every itself offering tech. ... Oh well, ...

Same theme here, if we let ourselves being played out against each other and vegans condemn meat eaters and vice versa, our discrepancies will lead to laws and regulations to whom then all must abide. That bears the question if vegans, for example, wish for their lifestyles to be forced on everyone else, that's what we'll get.

I support the local dealer where I can. We are having a local market, which takes place three times during a week and I am a regular customer there.

Now, I am wanting to un-learn that habit to virtue signal and that is why I am trying to stay away to boast about what "good I do".

Yeah, the WEF and other networks try hard to substitute national governments. And those governments seem to become more and more careless about their people. The problem, as it seems, is that if it's not the people who feed the members of parliament and they are being feed by someone else, they need not to care about the folks, since it's being taken care of elsewhere.

When mutual dependency relationships are dissolved, that is the worst thing that can happen, because those who are no longer dependent on the other no longer endeavour to communicate and do their best.

Some, if not most problems, of present time, won't be solved in our lifetimes. To wish to have them solved, becomes the actual problem.

  ·  4 months ago  ·  

Vegans are not majority you know...
Not much vegans in france and i did the whole turn to realise how meat is so important for health and this propaganda against it using emotions is terrible.
people are dying everyday from malnutruition being vegan.
and yes its a new style of showing emotions and it divised people extremely !!!

I agree, it's terrible.

It never is about majorities or minorities though, it's who's best at doing media business and influence politics, is how I see it.

Since tolerant people go by the "live and let live" attitude, zealots don't. They highly engage in changing laws and use media for their purposes. How comes, that we have that law in Germany, the self-determination act on "changing gender", for no other reason than that one says: "I am this and that!"?
These were tiny minorities. They are now growing into a mob because they are joined by those who know how to exploit the whole thing at work, for profit, reputation and in their social circles.

  ·  4 months ago  ·  

Who ever is ignorant enough to join those minorities will pay some heavy price on their life and the ones they love , their children.

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By the way, you can read my post on this topic on hive:

https://hive.blog/hive-150329/@erh.germany/using-logic-to-counteract-acts-for-regulations-on-terms

It's not a long piece.

  ·  4 months ago  ·  

I read , very interesting and deep subject..
And what you said is ON POINT !