Yet I also will say I believe feeling is independent of intellect, which can seem contradictory if one is prone to lumping emotions as feeling. While it is (I believe) under the domain of feeling, feeling itself is much more than emotion. Perhaps the best view I see is that emotion is experienced through the canvas of feeling, as are other flows.
Would you consider "feeling" to be "pre-verbal" and "emotion" to be "post-verbal" (post "intellectual") perhaps?
Possibly the reverse. I don't see much point in splitting hairs between synonyms - one Latinate, the other Germanic - as English is full of such words.
Just as we cannot pre-think a thought, so we cannot pre-perceive an emotion. We can have emotional abreactions but those are re-experiencing stored memory-complexes rather than being the perception of a new experience.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/feel
https://www.etymonline.com/word/emotion
Using the word feeling as the perception of an emotion is interesting - being able to touch it like one of the senses. It dovetails with the Buddhist philosophy where perceptions can be perceived, but often unperceived, and hence we follow their energy and consequences blindly. eg. a person may get angry and react in an angry manner without the self-perception at the time that they are merely in a state of anger... and have the option to chill-out and get over it! ;-)
A great question. Thank you. I often feel comfortable knowing things without classifying them and these questions lead me to doing just that.
I don't believe feeling is in the domain of verbal at all. Emotion on the other hand is created in the area of feeling by verbal.
I do believe that both feeling and intellect do affect one another. I also include in intellect the ability to think in images however, which is not a verbal application for what it's worth.
Back to emotion and feeling. I believe that intellect creates emotion positions within feeling to make for better survival. By better survival, what occurs to me is that we store these emotions within feeling and when we encounter situations that in the past required quick action, the intensity of these feelings were of such a rush that it would force a spontaneous reaction eliminating an internal dialogue/debate.
The problem is this fractionates us, as due to conflicting input from external stimuli we often have emotional storage centers at odds with one another. I suspect that this is often done to us on purpose, used in conjunction with our being trained to defer to our emotions so that we cruise through life asleep in a sense, on autopilot.
I believe this is why it seems to many that emotions are the origin. It isn't naturally, and appears so due to programming.
It's in this arena that brainwashing/hypnosis is performed. If you look at extreme cases such as MKultra, or even those in the military when they are in boot camp you can see this even more clearly.
The intensity of fractionation is used to create such strong emotional reference points that it places the person in a sort of spell. But at the root of every one of these emotional charges, there are thoughts first classifying, then instructing the autopilot on what is the "appropriate" response. Often, the response is damaging, but at this point the intellect has abdicated to the strong emotional charge that can act like a prison.
I hope I've explained my opinion on this well enough. I've found in my life that often when I try explaining my view it makes total sense to me, and the person I share with is lacking many reference points I took for granted in my formation of the idea(s).
Words. Such a wonderful tool that when used to isolate most often demonstrates its limitations to do just such a thing, lol.
I know I keep saying it, but I appreciate you popping in over here. I have a predeliction for examination which you are great at initiating. I do miss at times yourself and some others at Hive, but I prefer not to take part in systems I disapprove of if possible, which with Hive it is. I'm hopeful that as features are tweaked here that more will migrate over. There is more dignity here for what there is considered small users, or users who aren't favored by cliques. I can't in good conscious find myself supporting that there despite my fondness for many still there.
I also wanted to let you know there appears to be some kind of cut in the rewards for comment voting. I don't think it was intentional based on my initial probing of this. So until a fix is made my votes for comments will be minuscule as I shift the votes more to posts where they will be more effective for all involved.
I recall clearly that I deleted every game on my first PC as it dawned on me that, not only was it devouring my time but I'd also learnt nothing in the process. I sometimes spend 10 minutes playing backgammon ;-) So, was interesting to see a POV from an industry I have little contact with.
We could soon be a failed species unless we cull those abhumans that are the primary cause our downfall. But, of course, "good" people will never save themselves - coz that would mean doing something "bad".
Games are fascinating to me because it's basically work.
How do you trick people into doing work (problem solving, puzzle solving, repetitive tasks) for free?
And not only "for free" but most of them actually pay $$$ for the privilege.
It's like getting people to audition for free.
It's like getting people to submit contest entries for free.
It's like getting people to pitch their best ideas to you for free.
I'd have to think about that one. What I see is entrainment and diversions - a few genuine players surrounded by a haze of ppl who seem to spend more energy looking for cheats and walkthroughs and anything that avoids them actually using their brain. I don't even see the point of that, apart from impressing their friends.
I've even seen it, and worked a little on, so-called edutainment - the gamification of education - doesn't work, so far, as students can smell their brains burning.
I would create a sim-city-like environment with real science and history - havent seen that done. eg how to make the first knife ;-) most inventions are accidents; the inventiveness of humans is to then think, "oh, that's interesting, how did it do that? can I repeat it without making a mess?"
Great idea.
I wanted to make a game where you roll a starting character, a random historical time, a random historical geographic location, a random social status, a random set of physical characteristics with a realistic chance of birth defects.
You can only roll ONE CHARACTER.
as ur into games, I wondered if ud come across anything like that? I thought of that 20 years ago! would also be interesting to program it...
ok, how do you make a knife? well, we need a sharp edge... so the first knives were made of stone, but not any stone... then u discover some stones melt and then harden... some can make pots and spoons, some are crap for knives, but some are good... u still dont have the concept of a metal, just that some stones change properties when heated... a primitive alchemy is born... anyway lol
then some psycho thinks a knife is a better way of killing someone rather than as a craft or tool. and so the world churns.
It sounds like it might make an interesting "puzzle game", sort of like,
There are also some youtube channels dedicated to making things like knives using only primitive resources,
A nice video that touched on the boot camp from the beginning.
I'm not much of a gamer, but when my son was a teen he got me to play World of Warcraft with him. It had its moments, but I grew to exploiting the auction houses by creating shortages and jacking prices up for items necessary to make spells and weaponry and such. It helped me years later understand even better the manipulations that run rampant in crypto markets.
One thing that surprised me was people that were willing to pay me real currency in exchange for my game currency when I decided to leave the game.
I used to play chess a lot as a kid and young adult but slowly lost my zest for it. I'd say about 20 years ago I had been given a game called Go, but i never found anyone to play with so sold it. I really don't have any interest in games anymore.
Not to mention the forex and bond and futures and gold and stock markets.
Yes, pretty much most markets. I even reported on it in the hotel industry I've been working in very briefly. Depending on the person seeking a room it can vary how much the person will be paying. I even see it at play with gas stations, where the price is dependent often of locality. In certain areas where it is easier to fleece customers the price is often higher.
This made me laugh. The few partners I've had in my adult life have all commented many times that they believe I'm cynical. I would always reply with not cynical, just a realist.
Most "profitable" disciplines raise artificial barriers to entry.
The part I wanted to focus on with that video is the brainwashing, specifically in boot camp.
But it's interesting to me how much brainwashing is also involved in gaming.
And even in labor.
The gaming companies can pit wannabe coders against each other in order to drive down their labor costs.
It's amazing that they can take large groups of young men, and in such a short time of constant friction to them convince them they may need to go murder folks who've done them no harm, who are minding their own business just trying to live in far off places.
They're the exact same techniques used by terrorists and other "cults".
Yes, the structure is the same.
Consider joining LOGICZOMBIE discord,
https://discord.gg/gMzt59Vh
Thank you for the invite. I've avoided Discord after three years of being asked/told to go there, and will keep my record intact. I'm not sure why, but something about Discord feels off to me. I could rattle off a few reasons, but there is something deeper to it all inside of me. But then, I'm getting that way with most everything anymore. Fakebook, Google, even normal "free" email. The thought of adding more consent to be data harvested is a dark area anymore for myself.
here's my idea for discord,
I'll edit this comment when I have more time and can watch the video. Thanks for sharing.
Ok, so, using your lexicon,
INTELLECT ONLY SERVES FEELING
Imagine a chariot.
This chariot is pulled along by a GIANT BABY (and) an old fogey (and) a 16 year old kid and sitting in the "driver seat" is an adult.
Who is "in control" of this chariot?
No, and I apologize if I somehow gave you the impression I thought this. I believe they are two separate functions that can interact/influence one another.
This is an unanswerable question, in my opinion. Its been so long since I read much of what I have, but in the arguments placed in antiquity railing against the agnostics, I never found myself swayed that gnosis was possible.
I believe we can know things that fit a narrow area, but whether it is a truth or not I don't know.
Intellect seems to me to have the ability to dominate over oneself (whatever this is, the witness for lack of a better term), which means ruling over the area of feelings if one allows it. Which many do. Many allow this to take place by intellect creating feelings. then placing a level of importance to them that is activated when the spell of intellect is reactivated at a future date that is specific to the initial spell.
Feeling itself requires no classification (hence no intellect) to be logged in whatever it is we are (witnesses)?
So as to who is in control of the chariot( ourselves) I don't think that can be answered. I can't conceive that it can be anyway. It's quite possible that those who have hoarded the worlds histories and knowledge know exactly. They certainly know enough of intellect and its ability to cast spells on us, as they do this to the masses non stop.
I've read before that the mind (intellect) does not belong to us. That it is a foreign installation, whose purpose is to create the emotions it does so the beings who installed it can feed on that energy. While as with many things this is a tale to me, I can say after spending years sporadically stalking my own internal dialogue that the origin of many that take place have no obvious sign of origin from myself.
I believe Jung tried to account for this somewhat in his hypothesis on what he coined the collective unconscious. However, it seems to me that it would then be just as likely if we shared this common connection that it could indeed be manipulated as I read elsewhere. The older I get the more it makes sense too. We are all energy, and by all I mean all. The world is one huge circuit and and currents in one area affect currents elsewhere.
So I said a lot to say nothing. I simply don't know who or what is in control. Other than in momentary situations when I'm awake (paying attention) the manifestation of my will on a dynamic seems lacking to an extent. On autopilot. But what is piloting then, what is being abdicated to that takes over? I'm not really sure. I do believe whatever is taking place there it must take care to stay within the boundaries of the spells one agreed to or it would startle one awake, which gives one the ability to exert ones will on a thing.
Then that raises the question of what is will? Once again, I'm not certain. It does seem however that will comes from the area of feeling. I can think all day long that I want to move my arm, and nothing will happen if I don't push it through the area of feeling and will it so.
Please explain.
I'll try to briefly do so, but am pressed for time today unfortunately.
It appears to me that gnosis would only be possible if one held all possible knowledge to know for sure there aren't variables that are possible that make things suddenly what they aren't.
I don't know how one can possibly lay claim to the idea that gnosis is possible and they themselves hold it. It seems to me that it would be the same as trying to fit the ocean into a small sippy cup. Gnosis being the ocean, our limited whatever we are being the sippy cup.
This is a great topic by the way. It was inviting a commentary on gnosis as proclaimed by various religious branches that are anything but. They are yet more instances of perception masters creating the system and the recipients taking it in (being placed under its spell-ing). I notice this form of gnosis is often used both as a shield and a weapon, dependent on the position of strength of this particular form of self declared gnosis.
If you drop the sippy cup into the ocean, it may slowly fill with saltwater and sink into the depths.
Later the sippy cup may be washed ashore and the saltwater slowly leaks out onto the sand.
Before you can drink from the sippy cup, you must first rinse away the saltwater.
I like this.
Why do you breathe?
Why do you get out of bed in the morning?
Why do you eat?
Perhaps we can agree to call "pre-verbal" unidentified "feelings" "proto-feelings"?
And maybe "post-verbal" identified "feelings" "quantified-emotions"?
I dislike I'm rushed today as you are asking so many great questions. It will give me something to look forward to later when I'm not so rushed. I wish to make an observation before I try to briefly attempt answering this. It's an observation on a comment that rycharde has made somewhere here regarding emotion and feeling being a case of splitting hairs.
Obviously I view this different than he, which is why I'm doing exactly that here. In fact, the more I exchange with you if anything, my surety on them being two distinct areas has not only frown, I now question my original take that emotions are necessarily tied to feeling as I originally had thought. As I commit myself to explaining to another I am in the unique position of seeing my thoughts committed to , which is most enlightening. My debt and gratitude to both yourself and rycharde humoring me on this topic is immense.
Emotions - a jail of sorts that are created by intellectual spells.
Feeling - sensations that are a unique language/knowing. Smash your hand with a hammer, the light touch of another as it delights the self, the feeling another staring at you from behind and turning around and seeing it is so. It seems amazing to me that once examined that emotions are so easily confused with feeling. I caught myself even falling under this construct in an earlier comment I made to you where I used the word emotion when I should have used feeling. I left the mistake instead of editing it when I discovered I made it last night. I thought leaving a visible sign of my own folly on this matter could possibly serve as a lesson for others who may be observant.
The intellectual spells are very powerful indeed. Now as to whether this is so because we are immersed in them from birth I wonder. I suspect this is why.
I will try to watch the videos you have shared today, along with check out your latest comments and respond tomorrow.
∴
So therefore, I'm now questioning my assumption that emotions are bound to the area of feeling the way I had believed. The more we discuss this, the more I'm beginning to see it something like this.
I've always relegated emotions to feeling, as that is where they become noticeable. Evoking reactions in the feeling center of a person, they are not necessarily a feeling at all. I've noted for many years they are constructs of intellect. So now I'm thinking more along these lines.
Imagine one is climbing a mountain and brings rope and stakes. As they climb the mountain, they hammer their stakes into its side before progressing upwards to the next place they hammer the stakes.
The person hammering is the intellect, the stakes are emotions and the mountain is feeling. With only a cursory glance, one could conclude the stakes were part of the mountain if they didn't know better and the only place they ever encountered the stakes were in the sides of mountains. Yet they weren't part of the mountain at all, despite the person never encountering them elsewhere.
Not a complete analogy for sure, but it describes a mistake I think I've been making in assuming they were a part of the feeling area since that is where they are (where I have) observed (them). So at this point, the only thing of which I'm certain is that emotions are a by product of intellect casting a spell onto those binding the spell onto themselves. The emotions binding areas of feeling into certain reactions when the (intellect)spell in invoked.
Great Work.