RE: Delegation Removal ~ Community Voting

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Delegation Removal ~ Community Voting

in blurtdevelopment •  3 years ago 

@double-u makes normaly 1 or 2 Post a week and if he self votes the 1 or 2 Post a week it is not bad . If he would make every day 4 Post and votes them with 100% that would be not good 4 sure .

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  ·  3 years ago  ·  

@double-u says himself that self-voting is anti-social so why differentiate between 1 self-upvote and 10 self-upvotes? It's hypocritical.

I'm interested at what point you think @double-u's self-upvoting would not be good? I'm also interested in @double-u's opinion on this, especially having supported your comment (which implies agreement with your point).

1 post per week
2 posts per week
3 posts per week
4 posts per week
5 posts per week
6 posts per week
1 post per day
2 posts per day
3 posts per day
4 posts per day
5 posts per day
6 posts per day
7 posts per day
etc.

  ·  3 years ago  ·  

Why should I argue with you when you don't even read my comment properly. There you will already find my answer to your question.

  ·  3 years ago  ·   (edited)

This is an important point of discussion and if you don't want to get involved in it, you shouldn't have chosen to reply.

I apologise for over complicating the question and including options that you had already eliminated. I will simplify the question for you...

At what point you think @double-u's self-upvoting would not be good? I'm also interested in @double-u's opinion on this, especially having supported your comment (which implies agreement with your point and having also recently asked the question himself).

3 posts per week
4 posts per week
5 posts per week
6 posts per week
1 post per day
2 posts per day
3 posts per day

You will notice the significant difference between the options.

It's important so that users know at what point @double-u will start a campaign to stop them from doing what they are currently doing. Am I safe at self-upvoting 3 posts per day as your initial answer suggests? Or should I stop before that point?

I eagerly await your response now that I've taken the time to be far more pedantic in my reply which I apologise for not realising was a basic requirement in communicating with you.

  ·  3 years ago  ·  

If someone with doulble-u power would daily make 3 or 4 Post and would vote each of them with 100% that would not be good .
On the Other hand he makes every week his Pub a very important event here on Blurt .
Their People can make advertisment 4 post they think that they are important .
Chat with each other and a big part of these people that comment get a vote form Double-u . Werner votes Sunday,Monday and sometimes even on Tuesday people in the Pub .
So please do not pretend that he is only enriching himself with his votes

  ·  3 years ago  ·  

Let's talk about me instead then. I've bought myself 50,000 Blurt with my own hard earned money. I want to self-upvote but don't know what's considered acceptable. 3 to 4 posts per day is considered too much so is 2 posts per day is ok? Or am I allowed more because I'm not very powerful?

  ·  3 years ago  ·  

Do you think double-u did not worked hard 4 his blurt ?
The same rules apply to everyone. So if you would now make 4 posts a day and vote them all with 100% yourself I would not find that ok.
Even less ok I would find it if these were your only votes that you would make daily.

  ·  3 years ago  ·  

I don't think how hard somebody works for their Blurt is important. You could have worked just as hard for your Blurt as he did for his or as I did for mine. Or perhaps his came easier. Or perhaps mine did. And I agree with you when you say "The same rules apply to everyone". What is still unclear to me is what these rules are...?

Every society needs rules so that people can live together.

I know I'm being a dick about this. I actually support the blocking of delegations to UpVu (having experienced 1st hand what it's done to Steemit). But... I don't understand why 1 self-upvote is ok, and 4 or 5 isn't. And why delegations to UpVu have been blocked (without discussing the issue with them) yet delegations to similar users are still allowed. To share a few quotes that I read from another user...

But what would you say if I gave all 10 votes to myself every day?

I'm sure you wouldn't like that. Probably you would find that antisocial. And probably you would quickly, together with other users, think about how to prevent this.

I've been of the opinion for a very long time that we should set clear rules about what percentage of self-votes are okay, and at what amount it's no longer okay. That would finally put an end to this moral judging.

Delegating one's blurt power is just as much anti-social behavior.

The author compares delegations with self-upvoting. Now delegating to UpVu has been stopped (I've previously stated the unfairness of the approach taken in this regard so won't repeat it). It's not been capped at a percentage (let's say 1 upvote per day), it's been stopped altogether.

So why set a limit on a behaviour that's been directly compared to UpVu and not prevent it from happening altogether?

By blocking UpVu, Blurt has set a precedent in defining rules for its users. An implementation of legislation for how users must behave. I can't decide how to end this reply. UpVu has had "punishment" dealt to them with new legislation being created solely for that user whilst the #getupvotes Discord channel continues without the same level of scrutiny that UpVu received. I will end now, back with where we started...

The same rules apply to everyone.

Unfortunately, they don't.

  ·  3 years ago  ·  

How many times a day it is ok to vote yourself is not specified anywhere. The 4 times is my personal taste and the 4 also only an approximate guideline 4 myself.
If you vote only yourself not even 1 selfvote a day is ok. It must always stand in proportion.


@double-u gives in the week certainly 50 to 100 votes others since that we should not get upset about a few self votes.


I also vote myself when I'm still over 80% votepower late at night. Then I just haven't found any content I want to support, but still want to use my votepower ideally.

  ·  3 years ago  ·   (edited)

Unsocial are the people who constantly have to dictate what you can do and what not, or constantly spread bad vibes! @double-u makes more for the community than a large part of the people here who only whine and cry about a few % Selfvotes. Thought we are beyond the point that selfvotes do not give a damn if the community is not completely ignored. But it seems that the same monkeys from Steem and Hive always come over when the course of Blurt looks good.
Be glad that @double-u votes here on Blurt in the Communty and believes in the community (still).
He could also say "fuck you friends, I'm going home!" and he sells his blurt at the current price. With the total proceeds, he could make a daily return of over $800 through Osmosis Pools.
If it's all about the money, blurt is not the best place to go!

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

PS:

And this from one who delegates his complete BP to voting services over and over again. That explains everything.

´´´
the-gorilla delegate 5,001.085 BP to tomoyan 2021/12/05 14:02:3314,665,338 | 9f81f06
the-gorilla undelegate to tomoyan 2021/12/05 13:14:4814,664,392 | b22a0d9
the-gorilla undelegate to upvu 2021/12/05 13:14:3614,664,388 | 504ac0c
the-gorilla delegate 40,041.597 BP to upvu 2021/11/23 22:21:0914,332,915 | 5cf5c2e
the-gorilla undelegate to upvu 2021/11/18 20:13:2714,187,998 | 9dd4d93
the-gorilla delegate 5,008.424 BP to tomoyan 2021/11/14 19:38:2714,073,556 | 81509d5
the-gorilla undelegate to tomoyan 2021/11/14 19:36:2714,073,516 | 9b0e32a
the-gorilla delegate 15,025.275 BP to upvu 2021/11/14 19:36:0014,073,507 | 4721046
the-gorilla delegate 5,008.425 BP to tomoyan 2021/11/14 19:35:3914,073,500 | 69958af
the-gorilla delegate 10,020.491 BP to tomoyan 2021/11/09 16:08:2113,927,455 | ad043c5
the-gorilla delegate 10,020.491 BP to upvu 2021/11/09 16:07:5113,927,445 | bc756dd
´´´

  ·  3 years ago  ·   (edited)

And this from one who delegates his complete BP to voting services over and over again. That explains everything.

Yes! We finally have a winner!!!

I complained about UpVu when I first joined and put my investment on hold as a result. Then I delegate all of my Blurt to UpVu.

Am I being ironic, or just another hypocrite?

As everybody else has told me, it's my Blurt, and I can do what I want with it.

Oh hang on, no I can't.

You're not done making your point?

gorilla upvu.png

source

Or perhaps you feign dislike for upvu?

I had thought the compromise reached had grandfathered you in, but maybe it stops you from giving more and you wish to find a workaround.

Either way, I stand by my supporting your right to use the service as it's your stake, an unpopular opinion I've advocated for weeks now as this topic has simmered.

  ·  3 years ago  ·   (edited)

And having taken the time to look at Steemit and the profile I've been using there for 8 months, please also take the time to look at the delegations, the accounts I support, the charities I support, the users who needed financial help that I sourced and provided for them (even to the point that I'm a Godfather to a beautiful girl in the Philippines), the competitions I run for the community via that profile and @fpl-gorilla (including the Steem that I give away on a weekly basis) and the repeated comments regarding my disapproval for voting services and self-voting in general. Put the kettle on and make yourself a cuppa, there's plenty there.

That was my vision for my time on Blurt.

So, my subsequent arrival on Blurt. An initial investment of 50,000 and some commitment of time. Full of hope that I could make a difference. Help to make it something that we can all be proud of by helping to fight against plagiarism, writing a nice, shiny new front-end that will make it stand out from its rivals instead of the same, generic looking reskin of Steemit and Hive.

So I join the community, take a look around at the content I'm interested in and think "oh, it's all plagiarised". I highlight a couple of plagiarised users but hang on, nothing's done about it. Nothing can be done about it. So there goes the fight against plagiarism. Fairly quickly, I reach the same mindset that took me 4 months to realise about Steemit - what's the point in highlighting something when there's no consequence? So I change my approach and decide to withdraw my commitment to dedicate time to Blurt. And decide to place the remainder of my investment elsewhere until things get better. At this point, my mindset changes and Blurt becomes more of an investment than anything else, which I want to maximise my returns from. Feel free to also review my timeline of activity here - you'll notice the comments, followed by the timing of my delegation to UpVu.

Delegating my Blurt to UpVu is a selfish act, which will only benefit me and UpVu. But when I look around and see almost every other user self-voting (including those that have been voted in as witnesses), when self-voting only benefits those that vote for themselves then I am no more selfish than them. I'll be sure to vote on a load of other stuff too, then my percentage of self-voting will be 0% and I can claim to be community conscious.

I have become a product of the society that Blurt has created. I have become selfish and self-serving which as you say, is my right to do so. When I first spoke to you and you shared your "freedom" speech, I took the time to read all of your deleted posts on Steemit from 4 years ago from your original account. At some point, you changed too. Actions of others change how we perceive the world around us. In this case, how I perceive and interact with the world of Blurt.

Yes, I will be delegating my entire Blurt holding to UpVu later today. This won't affect the quality of content that I choose to post. This won't make me start posting plagiarised content. And I am well aware that I am a hypocrite for doing so. On Steemit, I'll continue the activities that I had intended to do here, I'll continue my time commitment there and continue not to use voting services.

You're not done making your point?

Yes. Now, I am 100% done 👋

  ·  3 years ago  ·  

I've just realised my explanation was totally unnecessary, but I'll leave it here anyway 🤷‍♀️

  ·  3 years ago  ·   (edited)

Thank you for the long explanation. While it was

totally unnecessary

It was a sign of respect just the same that you made the gesture to me. I'm humbled and thankful for your consideration in making it.

I've been putting off making a post on all of this, as many of the positions taken in the broader scheme of ownership have me upset a little. I appreciate your views, and am hopeful that you can grow to appreciate Blurt and not succumb to the very thing you felt strongly against. I'm doing a poor job right now at verbalizing because I understand your frustrations despite mine not being aligned or centered exactly with yours. However there is some small bit of overlap.

Of course, you're free to do as you wish. But Blurt is in need of leadership, and perhaps with time you might grow to being just such a thing in the area of concern you voiced. I don't expect an answer, but wanted to return your gesture to honor the one you had with me.

I'll be making a post in the coming days as I work to separate my emotions from the pictures I'll be describing, which will still probably make some cliques angry no matter how it is painted. I'm hopeful that when I make it, you might bring yourself to read it and weigh in, even if to tell me you disagree with my views on everything.

I also wanted to let you know that I took the time to find your account there because of our initial engagement. I laugh even now at how dismissive you were over the parts of my exchange that weren't of importance to your point. Laugh in a good way that is. While we disagreed on the responsibility of the issue I respected how strongly you felt/feel about the issue I agree is a real one.

In this very thread I saw you raise points, some that I see that were left on the table unacknowledged as I believe I'm possibly the only one who saw them.

A lot of words I'm saying that can be summed up with while we may disagree somewhat, I have a lot for respect for you overall which is why I took the time to look and also why I hold out hope you will slowly come to value Blurt and become a leader here.

If not us, then who?

  ·  3 years ago  ·  

Ha ha - I'm pleased that I left it there in that case. Whilst unnecessary, I don't like the feeling that I've wasted effort so I mirror your appreciation of taking the time to reply.

I laugh even now at how dismissive you were over the parts of my exchange that weren't of importance to your point.

This brought a smile to my face. I appreciate that I summarised what you said with (what I considered to be) an amusing image - I did read what you wrote (I always read to the end even if I don't necessarily agree or cover every/any point in my reply) 🙂

It's only in disagreement that better solutions can be found. By disagreeing, I'm pleased that I highlighted some points that you noticed and others didn't necessarily. Perhaps due to the obvious allegiances that have been built over a long period of time - I've rubbed a few people up the wrong way and towards the end of the "debate", I rather enjoyed this (they should be thanking me for giving them the opportunity of "earning" another 1,000 Blurt), especially being self-aware enough to know that I was being as hypocritical as those I was criticising. Which might even be considered to be ironic.

Although I genuinely believe that UpVu and similar services are bad for the future of Blurt, it's unclear to me what Blurt wants to be. If it wants people to be totally free, without rules (an extreme I know), then that's not what it is and these actions have confirmed that. If it wants to eventually be mainstream, then it's not gone far enough (yet). This lack of clarity means that I don't know if I share its values - its vision for the future. And consequently, the chances of me becoming any kind of leader are slim.

I still believe in Blurt's potential as an investment at very least. Steemit's been going nowhere since I joined (although I've been reliably informed that some upgrades are coming) and although I think that Hive has more quality content that interests me, I've already received a comment telling me that I need to comment more and post less because it's a 2-way street. They haven't replied to my comment telling them that I only have 0.5 HP which is enough to make up to about 2 comments per day if I don't post.

Incidentally, I mentioned in my intro post that you're one of the reasons I'm here - it genuinely helped me to make the decision to join and then offgridlife did the rest. I'll decide whether to thank you or not another time 😆

In the mean time, I'll continue to read and interact with the people that I follow so I'll be sure to look out for your post when you have time, patience and calmness to write it. Whether or not I'll feel like repeating myself against the cliques that I suspect are those that I've recently disagreed with is another matter👋

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